Try over double that... a Boss 302R is $129K.
Mustang Boss 302 to come with special key for race calibration, free track day
- Thread starter Fox-4
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Try over double that... a Boss 302R is $129K.
I swear, some of you have the reading comprehension of a third grader, and that might be giving you a little credit. I am well versed on the Boss.
First of all, I am not ripping on the Boss, nor the Cobra R's. It's never been about that. I'll say it (for what, the third time in this thread???) that I am a buyer for one. However, that does not mean it is going to be the best car to buy in order to get the fastest lap times.
You guys need to be a little realistic here. The Boss is being marketed as being a couple seconds faster around Laguna Seca than a new M3. Through other comparisons, the new GT isn't that far from a new M3 in the lap times department. Are you seriously trying to tell me with 10k in mods you couldn't get a base GT with Brembos to run Laguna Seca 4 seconds faster than a new M3? That is all that would be necessary for me to be right and all of you fan boys, to be wrong. What do you think a set of R comps would be worth time wise around a track? Now you have 9k left to make up that difference. Still think I am crazy?
You can view my stand point a couple different ways. It's either an attack of a new Boss, or a praise to the new GT. They are honestly not THAT far apart.
A lot of you mention the extensive differences between the GT and Boss. That's great. Thanks for the redundant posts of something that everyone that is posting in these threads already knows. However, you do me a favor and showing what makes up that 10k in price difference to Ford, which minimizes the amount of that difference that is actually put towards the suspension. To say the shocks and struts on the boss are on par with some remote resevoir penskes or ohlins, is absolutely insane (I'm looking right at you Jimmy). The adjustable Ford racing struts are like $800 for the entire set. Certainly not high dollar. They may or may not be the same, but the bodies are the same, as are the adjustment points and hardware. Best case scenario the valving is different.
IS the Boss's motor better? Sure. Are there other things on the Boss that make it more of a complete car? Absolutely. Could you take a GT and spend 10k on it and turn a faster lap time that a showroom stock Boss? Think about that before you hit the reply or quote button, because that is all I am saying.
If you say "no" than I am going to have to say you are ignorant, and there is no reason for anyone to argue with you.
Again, I really like the Boss. If I could afford to wait until all of the ADM hype died down, I would own one. I am being 100% serious. If Ford announced they were going to build all they could sell and take plan pricing, they would already have my deposit.
I'm not naive though. I know for a pure track car, or any car you are going to mod, that it's always better to go with the cheaper car and spend the difference in mods. How many SERIOUS track guys are out there with stock cars with stock suspension? Probably not too many. That's the way this sickness....errr...hobby works. Then, if you know you are going to "upgrade" the parts anyways, why start with the more expensive pieces? That would mean you would have a more expensive spare parts bin when you are done
Let's do some math here:
Livernois forged rods and pistons : $1499.99
Livernois Stage 1 heads : $1299.99
aftermarket intake manifold (doesn't exist yet): approx. $599.99 (used FRPP 3V price)
aftermarket cams (don't exist yet): approx. $1199.99 both sets I/E (used the price of 4.6L 4V cams)
various gaskets: $200
dyno tuning: $500
Griggs GR40SS Super Street suspension package: $3,630.30
Total: $ 8930.26
That by the way, is low balling some figures that don't even exist yet, and figuring in the fact that you'd be doing all the work yourself.
So you pay $34K for a Premium Brembo GT, plus $9K and you come out with $43K, plus countless hours of work.
Seeing as the price for a 2012 Boss is going to be around $38K, obviously there's dealer mark up for exclusivity. However, the MSRP is much lower than what you could build, and it's done for you instead of doing the work yourself. Obviously if this was all done professionally it would be much more expensive.
Exactly, and don't forget that the costs of the warranty and development costs are factored into the sticker price of every car. You touch a GT the way you mentioned above, and kiss the warranty goodbuy. I've always said this, there is a price to pay for a factory package that goes beyond the parts.
Point number one, the GT doesn't NEED a forged bottom end at this level. I never said anything about building a comparable car. I even said just the normal intake, exhaust and tune to help even out the power disparity.
Point number two, I'm not sure why you would start with a premium GT, when the boss even starts withg a base car, and I even specified a base car with brembos. Oh wait, I know why, becuase if you started with the base brembo car then even with the aftermarket motor, it would come out cheaper than the boss. That's not even taking into account the fact that you could pick up the GT for close to invoice, and you'd be lucky not to pay an ADM on a Boss.
Also, I never said 60k. Change the above arguement to 40k. That is exactly what I was talking about the whole time. As TXPD mentions, the more amount you have to invest in a car, the less the original platform maters. Ultimately, the guy with the biggest checkbook has the advantage.
Start with a 2005 GT and you can build a car that will go faster on the track than the 302ls for $25,000. Just keep the 302 stock and run slicks on the 2005.
My point is going fast on the track is NOT the point of buying a 302.
My point is going fast on the track is NOT the point of buying a 302.
no. go back and read again. the boss 302r comes in two forms. one, the $129k version comes with the grand am racing upgrades. the base model comes in at $50k less than that.
two questions:
A. You think its fair to keep the Boss on street tires and give the GT the racing tires?
B. What do you mean by slicks? DOT racing tires like the Hoosier R6 or pure slicks like the Pirelli P-Zero?
BTW...Ford says that the Boss 302 is the ultimate track car. They are selling it for that purpose with suspension and ride that would not be comfortable on the street with racing seat option that isnt comfortable either. If going fast on the track isnt the point, what is?
Oh...one more thing. My race car(pictured below) is a team build to FR500C specs Grand Am race car. It started life as a brand new 2005 Mustang GT. Are you saying you could build a car like mine for $25k?
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I'm enjoying the 'DEBATE',,,,
I'm gonna order a street BOSS 302, I was planning on ordering the Recaros, your saying these won't be comfortable for street, I plan on mostly/almost exclusively, driving it as a daily driver, am I making a huge mistake?
I'm not in the same league as most of you here, I just want something that is a little unique and terribly fun to drive on the street, so, the BOSS appears to suit my need for speed and not be the same as the thousand's of Mustangs running around (not that there's anything wrong with that), so opinions/recommendation's, would be welcomed.
Husker
Ditto. :beer:
This would be my exact reason to buy one as well
TXPD, I think the point is that for a serious track guy, the car is going to end up somewhere between a stock car, and your avatar. If thats the case, then obvioudly strting with the Boss is not a good "bang for the buck" starting point. I think the poster in question was meaning that by pikcing up and 05 gt, and dumping price difference into it, that you would also destroy a Boss on the track. That doesn't mean the Boss is a not an awesome car, it's just typically how these things work.
I'm still waiting to see where final pricing stakcs out even though my timeline most likely prohibits me form getting one, and whether or not the car will be eligible for plan pricing.
I think it would pay dividends for you to sit in the recaros first. they are racing seats, which means they are built for minimul movement and safety first. car seats are built for comfort.
Try them first.
I think you need to go back and re-read my first post. Intake, exhaust, and a tune on a GT will barely put it at the performance level of the Boss with the TracKey. In fact no one really knows the true output of the Boss with the TracKey. Although if the rumors of a raised redline to 8500 rpm are true, you can almost guarantee that it'll be making high 400's if not 500 horsepower.
Second, like I said in my second post, the boss is going to cost around $38K MSRP. That is the price of the car, not the dealer mark up. Yes the dealer mark up will be enforced, but that's paying for the rights to own the car, not for the hardware.
Finally, it's nice to have a GT that can be tracked hard, and perform well, but I'm almost positive had anyone the choice between a track ready GT and a Boss 302, they'd take the Boss in a heartbeat.
Get the Recaros!!!
The Recaros will be comfortable for street use, unless you have a very large build. There are plenty of cars that come with Recaro seats as OEM, they are fine for every day street use. The STi, EVO, CTS-V etc all have reclinable Recaro seats standard or as options.
TXPD thinks they will be race seats, which they will not be. They are heavier bolstered (compared to stock) street seats. The 2000 Cobra R Recaros were not what anyone woudl call "real" race seats, and they are very nice nice for everyday driving.
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Finally a realist! :beer:
What will this car run at the quarter track? Will it launch good with the factory stocks, etc. Your assistance is appreciated. :banana:
What do 2011 GTs run? Seen any fast ones yet?:rollseyes Ahhh YES!:rockon:
I would think so, think 2011 GT with forged pistons, stronger rods, CNC ported heads, light weight high rev valve train and cams and runners in a box intake.
Unlike the original BOSS cars this car has no choice but to ALSO be a potent 1/4 mile car, I'm thinking RED KEY= low to mid 11s on R compounds or drag radials.
I predict this engine will be found later on, modded w/ a large twin screw(or turbos) at high boost levels but otherwise stock internals making 800 to 900 rwhp. Just like the potent GT500s that are modded hard. Except these heads flow better than Ford GT heads, the lower end has less parasitic drag, and variable cam timing allows big power improvements under the curve.
You won't even notice that .4 liters are not there any more.
Think GT500(or SVT Cobra when Shelby's agreement is timed out) replacement engine only before it actually happens from Ford.
Ford might do DI on the 5.0 when they switch GT500 engines.. maybe Eco-boost 5.0 with better power and better MPG than the current 5.4?:shrug: It would be a massive win win, And I think they are just the guys to pull it off!
OK I just ran across this, 802 RWHP on a stock 2011 engine with a Paxton Novi 2200 @ 12 pounds of boost, long tubes, exhaust, and air to air intercooler. And a tune obviously!
Wait till these aftermarket tuning companies get a hold of a BOSS 5.0!
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXuCBFVF2XY"]YouTube - JPC Racing's 2011 Mustang GT on the dyno.[/nomedia]
Wait till these aftermarket tuning companies get a hold of a BOSS 5.0!
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXuCBFVF2XY"]YouTube - JPC Racing's 2011 Mustang GT on the dyno.[/nomedia]
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OK I just ran across this, 802 RWHP on a stock 2011 engine with a Paxton Novi 2200 @ 12 pounds of boost, long tubes, exhaust, and air to air intercooler. And a tune obviously!
Wait till these aftermarket tuning companies get a hold of a BOSS 5.0!
YouTube - JPC Racing's 2011 Mustang GT on the dyno.
Holy crap,
Great numbers.:beer:
what do you do with 800whp?
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