You must not really have read all of my posts. My whole point was for a serious track guy, ie track times are the most important, that the GT was a better place to start. If you want a mustang with a little more capability and swagger/panache, then the Boss would be the way to go. I even said I would buy the Boss for that reason. I would throw an intake, tune and longtubes on one and daily drive it. However, for an avid track guy, the GT is a better way to go, IF you were going to use a mustang (there are better platforms for a track car, but sometimes we want what we want).
Mustang Boss 302 to come with special key for race calibration, free track day
- Thread starter Fox-4
- Start date
Wait, you put aftermarket stuff on an R?? Unpossible!! The R stuff is made from unobtanium and nothing is better!!
I honestly don't understand why you're ripping so hard on the new Boss. The whole package is designed from the ground up to be a track specific car. The GT is not. Yes the Brembo's are nice, but if you think that slapping new springs, shocks/struts, U/LCA's and some other goodies onto a GT and have it come close to the price point that the Boss is at, then you're nuts.
From an engineering standpoint, it takes a lot of money to calculate spring rates in correlation to shock/strut dampening rates, camber, caster, ect. This is all done by Ford's engineers, who happen to have a lot of experience doing so.
Therefore, it's not the individual parts themselves, but the sum of them. Certain combinations of suspension settings yield better handling from less expensive parts than slapping on a bunch of expensive stuff, and not knowing suspension geometry.
Plus this car has a fully forged motor, which is basically a Boss 302R motor from the factory. It's got better heads, cams, intake, rotating assembly, etc. than a GT.
Ford engineers tested the Boss 302 motor with a test similar to the Daytona 250 175 times in a row, and it didn't blow up. It's also had double bogey testing which operates the motor beyond redline for extended periods of time. Can a GT do that? Absolutely not.
This car is far from a GT with I/E/T and suspension work. Beyond that once the Boss starts receiving exhaust and intake modifications, you can bet your ass its going to make a lot more power than an I/E/T GT.
interesting note. the red key tune for the boss 302 moves the rev limiter/red line from 7500 to 8500.
the fully forged part is critical. take your gt and pull the motor and rebuild it with forged parts and reinstall it. then add that cost to your base line price and see how it adds up.
the fully forged part is critical. take your gt and pull the motor and rebuild it with forged parts and reinstall it. then add that cost to your base line price and see how it adds up.
the rods are powdered metal sinter forged, not solid forgings.
Nathan'sTSI: That's exactly why and put aftermarket on 'em if we track them! The original stuff is made of unobtainium! Guys like TXPD and I like to use the R's as Ford intended: on a race track, at high speed.
Where did you see this, I must have missed it?
Also, arguing about what you can or can't do for equal money is kind of pointless until we actually find out how much it's going to cost.
where did you see this published?
the metallurgy is not important only that they are strong enough which obviously Ford did not thing the GT rods were.
This is what I suspected but have not yet seen in print. Can you link to that data point to confirm?
This is true, but so are the rods in the 4.1" stroke 5.4 GT500s and people are taking them all the way to 800 RWHP and they are living. The rods in that engine see ridiculously high piston speeds.
We do not yet know how stout these BOSS rods are, except that I do not remember hearing about BOSS cars throwing rods last Grand Am season.
I think they are going to be plenty stout. In fact I am guessing a BOSS 5.0 will be the next blown GT500 engine, and it may be the same rods when/if it happens.
I must admit it's the BOSS engine that has got me to abandon my 2011 GT track car plans.
I have a bit of history with Ford, I've been a Ford parts guy since 1970, IMHO this new BOSS 5.0 is even more hard core and full of race car specific parts than the original 69/70 cars were.
The rear disc brakes were a kit on the originals, you had to add them from the Muscle Parts catalog before racing, as well as some other items too.
Today you can buy a BOSS 302R ready to rock right from the factory, and even the street BOSS cars are loaded with serious hard core race capable parts.
Most notable is the engines which are exactly the same as the BOSS 302R
I found this photoshop on corner carvers, I freaking LOVE IT!:-D
I swear, some of you have the reading comprehension of a third grader, and that might be giving you a little credit. I am well versed on the Boss.
First of all, I am not ripping on the Boss, nor the Cobra R's. It's never been about that. I'll say it (for what, the third time in this thread???) that I am a buyer for one. However, that does not mean it is going to be the best car to buy in order to get the fastest lap times.
You guys need to be a little realistic here. The Boss is being marketed as being a couple seconds faster around Laguna Seca than a new M3. Through other comparisons, the new GT isn't that far from a new M3 in the lap times department. Are you seriously trying to tell me with 10k in mods you couldn't get a base GT with Brembos to run Laguna Seca 4 seconds faster than a new M3? That is all that would be necessary for me to be right and all of you fan boys, to be wrong. What do you think a set of R comps would be worth time wise around a track? Now you have 9k left to make up that difference. Still think I am crazy?
You can view my stand point a couple different ways. It's either an attack of a new Boss, or a praise to the new GT. They are honestly not THAT far apart.
A lot of you mention the extensive differences between the GT and Boss. That's great. Thanks for the redundant posts of something that everyone that is posting in these threads already knows. However, you do me a favor and showing what makes up that 10k in price difference to Ford, which minimizes the amount of that difference that is actually put towards the suspension. To say the shocks and struts on the boss are on par with some remote resevoir penskes or ohlins, is absolutely insane (I'm looking right at you Jimmy). The adjustable Ford racing struts are like $800 for the entire set. Certainly not high dollar. They may or may not be the same, but the bodies are the same, as are the adjustment points and hardware. Best case scenario the valving is different.
IS the Boss's motor better? Sure. Are there other things on the Boss that make it more of a complete car? Absolutely. Could you take a GT and spend 10k on it and turn a faster lap time that a showroom stock Boss? Think about that before you hit the reply or quote button, because that is all I am saying.
If you say "no" than I am going to have to say you are ignorant, and there is no reason for anyone to argue with you.
Again, I really like the Boss. If I could afford to wait until all of the ADM hype died down, I would own one. I am being 100% serious. If Ford announced they were going to build all they could sell and take plan pricing, they would already have my deposit.
I'm not naive though. I know for a pure track car, or any car you are going to mod, that it's always better to go with the cheaper car and spend the difference in mods. How many SERIOUS track guys are out there with stock cars with stock suspension? Probably not too many. That's the way this sickness....errr...hobby works. Then, if you know you are going to "upgrade" the parts anyways, why start with the more expensive pieces? That would mean you would have a more expensive spare parts bin when you are done
The GTs are going to be close, I don't want to confuse the issue, but I was looking at the Ford racing catalog and so far there are not any parts for the BOSS 302 R that I can find, so I don't know how much or what they are.
I seriously doubt the street BOSS is going to have the same springs and shocks as the R boss.
For example one FR500C front shock is $1595.95
Ford Racing Performance Parts - [Part Details]
That's why I posted the Penske shocks, just to give guys an idea what some of the race teams run on these Mustangs, I was not in any way saying that the streetboss comes with those.:dw:
The street boss is going to have really nice dampers but they are not going to be an 8 thousand dollar set of Penskes.:dw:
The BOSS-R??? Who knows.:shrug:
If however someone did slap on a set of Penskies with the right springs on a GT you can bet your ass it will be fast as hell even with a stock GT 5.0. :rockon:
I seriously doubt the street BOSS is going to have the same springs and shocks as the R boss.
For example one FR500C front shock is $1595.95
Ford Racing Performance Parts - [Part Details]
That's why I posted the Penske shocks, just to give guys an idea what some of the race teams run on these Mustangs, I was not in any way saying that the streetboss comes with those.:dw:
The street boss is going to have really nice dampers but they are not going to be an 8 thousand dollar set of Penskes.:dw:
The BOSS-R??? Who knows.:shrug:
If however someone did slap on a set of Penskies with the right springs on a GT you can bet your ass it will be fast as hell even with a stock GT 5.0. :rockon:
Nate, watch your attitude. I understand that the typed word often creates misunderstandings of attitude, but stuff like your 3rd grader comment only reenforces the perception you are building.
Go back to your first post on the subject when you said a 5L Gt with some Griggs gear would be faster than a Boss 302.
The red key. My information was told to me. Its not published.
Go back to your first post on the subject when you said a 5L Gt with some Griggs gear would be faster than a Boss 302.
The red key. My information was told to me. Its not published.
Lets not be ridiculous... They are not raising the redline to 8500 with the red key. Even if they did, it will not make power up there anyway.
While this is a cool car and very well optioned for track use, it is not some ultimate track weapon type car that is unbeatable. I agree that a base GT with brembos, could possibly be made into a faster track car for the difference between the GT and the Boss, But it wont have all the cool gizmos that the Boss has (adjustable power steering, better stability control etc).
I will buy a Boss, but not with any markup.
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Correct but put slicks on the boss as well and then what.
Is this griggs GT on slicks gonna run without brake cooling? Oil Cooler? Stock radiator? Stock oil pan? Add it up...I don't see this big difference in pricing.
Then hypothetically sell both cars as configured and get your calculator out to see which was more cost effective.
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well...sure. if you attach a ship anchor to the boss, the gt will be faster too.
on the other hand, give them both slicks and then what?
Ok put it this way. You have $60,000 to spend which will be faster in the end the GT or the 302? The $60 includes the price of the car. I'll bet the GT is faster in the end. Because you wasted $10,000 on the 302 that you end up throwing away.
as mentioned above. $60k on a GT means that $40k is never coming back. I am trying to think of $20k in upgrades you would even want to put on the Boss 302. At that point you are buying $7k shocks and spending money on a shaker rig to get it tuned right. Its not about parts and pieces anymore. Its about developement.
At $60k you can just about buy the Boss 302R.
At $60k you can just about buy the Boss 302R.
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