Multiple Fuel Leaks after Lethal Budget Plus Return Fuel System Install

DSG2003Mach1

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I thought Fore made the major components lime rails and fuel hat for Lethal under the the division X name?

fragola was supplying at least the lines and fittings for a while, no idea about current. Fore being a competitor that would surprise me. I know because I talked to fragola, had to mail my shit back to them
 

Blkkbgt

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fragola was supplying at least the lines and fittings for a while, no idea about current. Fore being a competitor that would surprise me. I know because I talked to fragola, had to mail my shit back to them

Interesting. I always thought they were essential one in the same. Looking at fragolas site it appears that they just do fittings though.

I specifically remember Lethal offering return systems using Fore hats and rails. I wonder if they just copied Fore and found a cheaper supplier? It wouldn't surprise me now days because it seems to be even more common than 10+ years ago. Even companies that freaked when their stuff was copied have turned to copying others.
 
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MG0h3

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I’d try the loosening and tightening thing a couple times.

You could also just get new fittings for those spots and lop off the 3/4-1” of hose to have fresh hose to work with.

I’d think there is enough leeway to do that.


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efnfast

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yea at this point i’m willing to put the lines together myself just to get the car finished up. what brand lines do you recommend from summit?

I'll only ever use Aeroquip fittings and hoses. I built my first car using Aeroquip hoses back in 2004 and the original hoses are still holding up like a champ. Meanwhile you buy other brands like Earls, Summit house, etc., within a few years they're leaking/weeping fuel.
 

gtmustang00

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The Fore fittings with I believe vibrant hose as I wanted all black. They are pretty easy to make. I just installed their stuff in our car a few months ago and no issues.
 

01yellercobra

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Interesting. I always thought they were essential one in the same. Looking at fragolas site it appears that they just do fittings though.

I specifically remember Lethal offering return systems using Fore hats and rails. I wonder if they just copied Fore and found a cheaper supplier? It wouldn't surprise me now days because it seems to be even more common than 10+ years ago. Even companies that freaked when their stuff was copied have turned to copying others.
Fore used to work with/through Lethal. He designed it and they sold it. At some point Fore went out on his own. I'm assuming Lethal still had the rights to some things because of the Division X line. But Fore is it's own entity now.
 

cj428mach

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I thought Fore made the major components like rails and fuel hat for Lethal under the the division X name?

Not even close. Thats why Fore Rails fit other blowers long ago and the Division X stuff didn't. Fore doesn't use rubber hose in the fuel tank and their hats come preassembled. I don't think you can even buy a hat separately from them. My 2 Fore hats come preassembled and they're machined so the pump nipple fits into the hat and seals with an oring vs a rubber hose that degrades. This also eliminates the issue of the pump assemblies being installed at the wrong height and having issues grabbing the fuel.

We won't even touch the wiring harnesses as they were night and day. I did see that Lethal has copied Fores relay system now finally.

Fore used to work with/through Lethal. He designed it and they sold it. At some point Fore went out on his own. I'm assuming Lethal still had the rights to some things because of the Division X line. But Fore is it's own entity now.

I believe it happened before I was in the game but I read that Fore supplied the fuel systems for Lethal. Then the owner of Fore got a divorce and had to shut down or quit supplying the systems. I believe Lethal started to produce them to fill the void and maybe with Fores blessing/help. Then Fore got back into the game and quickly became the leader. Their stuff is constantly improved and innovated. Since they build their stuff in house they can easily make the changes. I've dealt with Justin the owner at Fore and I can say he's top notch, and knows fuel systems better than anyone.
 

cidsamuth

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OP,

When I installed the fuel system on my 08 GT, I used multiple AN fittings throughout. At first, I had FIVE of them leaking. With four, I was able to torque them down (which you're not supposed to have to do), and they stopped leaking. The fifth, I had to replace, as no amount of torqueing worked.

Yours might be different, but I have found the 37 degree contact points of AN fittings aren't as reliable as they are supposed to be. I have also had AN fittings leak at those contact points for IC coolant AND oil, and no amount of loosening and retorqueing helped.

From experience, the way I have gotten the most consistent seal is to lube those 37 degree contact areas with a little bit of oil before assembly. My theory: Without lube, when the points meet and you start tightening it down, it grinds on the surface and sometimes creates grooves for fluid to escape. Knock on wood, every time I have lubed the surface points, I remained leak free.
 

NateDogg

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The first system I put together I decided to use fragola lines/fittings.. The -8 fittings did great but all of my -10 fittings had leaks. Swapped them all out with fore fittings and never had another issues.

Since that mistake I only use fore components on my cars.. 2 complete fore systems on my last cars and zero issues. The quality is great and the lines aren't hard to put together at all.. I'd recommend getting their stuff.
 

01yellercobra

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I believe it happened before I was in the game but I read that Fore supplied the fuel systems for Lethal. Then the owner of Fore got a divorce and had to shut down or quit supplying the systems. I believe Lethal started to produce them to fill the void and maybe with Fores blessing/help. Then Fore got back into the game and quickly became the leader. Their stuff is constantly improved and innovated. Since they build their stuff in house they can easily make the changes. I've dealt with Justin the owner at Fore and I can say he's top notch, and knows fuel systems better than anyone.

I forgot about the divorce. I think that's when it went from just Fore to Fore Innovations. I remember a lot of people were concerned he wasn't going to be making parts anymore. But he was able to figure it out.
 

Fdawg97lx

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thanks for all the good info guys. i ended up ordering conical seals and a bunch of fittings and hose ends from summit last night. we are going to try the seals first and if that doesn’t work we are planning to cut off the hose ends and install new ones.

considering the issues i had with the fuel leaks and also with my regulator to rail fuel line being too short. also the way things transpired when i called lethal i wish i had just got with fore in the first place
 

olympic

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I've always used Summit or Vibrant brand PTFE hose and fittings with no issues. PTFE hose/fittings are really finnicky to put together sometimes and requires a bit of skill, time and patience. Something some high school kid making minimum wage assembling hoses might not have...lol.
 

Bdubbs

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I installed all my PTFE hose fittings for the first time by myself using the Fore kit. Not one leak.

I'm not sure how much more the Fore cost, but it's well worth it.

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SVTdreamin04

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I used aeroquip hose and fittings. I’ve had zero issues. They make some good stuff!


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DCguy

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considering the issues i had with the fuel leaks and also with my regulator to rail fuel line being too short. also the way things transpired when i called lethal i wish i had just got with fore in the first place

This strikes a bit of a nerve and is something i've been seeing/dealing with a fair amount lately as well. Nine times out of ten, when dealing with retailers/resalers, if there is any issue after the items are sold, you are on your own......doesn't matter how many thousands of dollars you've spent.......its "thanks for the bucks pal.......now F off."

For this reason, any parts or kits I buy I first try with small, operator owned shops well kown in the 4v cobra community. They actually care, respond to their customers, and support their products if there's an issue. Deal directly with the manufacturer when possible.....don't buy through a resaler......they charge insane markup, don't provide any back end support (in most cases they don't even understand what they're selling), and it just complicates the process should you have an issue.
 

01yellercobra

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Deal directly with the manufacturer when possible.....don't buy through a resaler......they charge insane markup, don't provide any back end support (in most cases they don't even understand what they're selling), and it just complicates the process should you have an issue.

That depends on who you're dealing with. I bought some parts from a dealer on here and the prices he gave me were way better than whatever the manufacturer could do. And he understood the product and answered my questions. Even though I had a ton of them.
 

TP03

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I was really close to buying a lethal kit. I settled on a Fore kit mainly from all the good experiences svt guys had with their systems. Really happy I went with a Fore system. Quality of the their products and fittings are top notch. I had one leak after install and it was my fault for not tightening a fitting.
 

cj428mach

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That depends on who you're dealing with. I bought some parts from a dealer on here and the prices he gave me were way better than whatever the manufacturer could do. And he understood the product and answered my questions. Even though I had a ton of them.

Yep, Fore is high as hell if you buy direct from them, Guys like Malcolmv8, 04sleeper, Trbo_Vnm can all get you a much better price. Also if you buy from those guys they've all done system installs and will give you free tech support to some degree.
 

black03

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Hi Guys, me and a friend installed the budget plus return fuel system from lethal performance yesterday and today on my 03 Cobra. We have the system completely installed and base pressure set. while we were setting base pressure we noticed the smell of fuel. we have fuel leaks where the feed line and return lines connect the regulator and also on both sides of the fuel filter where it connects inline in the feed line. The strange thing is the fuel seems to be coming from the fittings on the side where they are installed on the ptfe hoses, the part that is pre-assembled in these kits. We double checked to ensure everything is tight. we did not use thread sealant because they are an fittings. are you guys using any tape/paste? anyone ever have these lines leak from the pre-assembled fittings?
Hey Frank,
I believe we spoke the other day on the phone about this. As mentioned when we spoke we rarely ever have any hose ends leak let alone 4 in one system. It's highly unlikely for this to occur. The Fragola PTFE hose ends and hose are very high quality and used by tons of our customers, shops and well known racers in the industry with great success over the years.

I personally believe that your leaks are due to not having the hose ends tight enough. Trust me I've had plenty of people reach out believing it was a fitting issue and after walking them through it once loosened and retightened properly the issue was solved. Even customers who have said to me they have vast automotive mechanical experience have come back to thank me for the suggestion and that the problem was solved when retightened. Try using some lube on the threads of the hose end and fitting and use two wrenches to tighten the connection. One on the hose end and one on the AN fitting are required for proper installation.

Why many people feel the leak is coming from the side of the hose is because the fuel leaks from the pin on the hose end nut. This is because if the seal isn't made properly between the flare on the fitting to the flare on the inside of the hose end. The first place for the fuel to reach is that pin or the back of the hose end nut.

We are here to assist you and make sure you're satisfied with the fuel system which is why I mentioned if you're unable to successfully install the hoses without any leaks we will be glad to have Fragola test them for us. If they are defective they will be replaced without question.

Feel free to reach out to us at 561-753-8105 or [email protected] if you have any other questions or concerns.

Thanks, Jared
 

DSG2003Mach1

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^^^^

Leaky kits definitely happen, I had at least that many if not more and Fragola verified by testing the lines themselves.

If oil on the threads and re-tightening still leaks at that pin then ya, the conical seals may get you that little bit extra you need to not leak without having to send it all back
 

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