Motor Trend Track Comparison between C8 and GT500 at VIR

Tob

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Adjustable mounts aren't coming with the Handling Package as much as Ford intimated at times that they were. Instead, the aero pieces are matched with an oil separator.

WTF Ford....
 
biminiLX

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Tob said:
Adjustable mounts aren't coming with the Handling Package as much as Ford intimated at times that they were. Instead, the aero pieces are matched with an oil separator.

WTF Ford....
Click to expand...
Well ain’t that some bowlsheet?
So only on the CFTP?
You snack pack guys should do a class action suit.
Seriously tho, that’s crazy the ‘Handling Package’ makes do without the strut mounts and tires.
You’ll forget some of that sting tho the first time out on the track or a lonely country road!
-J
 
P5Boy

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biminiLX said:
What is your argument? That the ZL1 1LE ‘might’ beat the base GT500 and is $5k cheaper?
Yes we buy these cars for performance, but it’s also about the complete package. When you’re spending $75k range, getting the car you want is all that matters.
That DCT seems to be legit and from every single review, EVERY SINGLE ONE has been positive. Almost universally they appreciate how the new 500 is the best all-around performance car and remains very streetable with minimal sacrifices compared to its on track ability.
Forget the ADM reasoning BS, as the reality is any new it thing is in high demand. Now if you have cash burning thru your pocket, yes, you’re stuck with ADM.
But doesn’t ADM reinforce the argument of how much better the 500 compares to the ZL1. You can upcharge one and discount the other and people will still bend over for the 500.
-J
Click to expand...

Respectfully, I think the ZL1 1LE will easily handle (on a circuit) the 2020 GT500. I think it will turn into a real fight with a CFTP equipped car. Generally, GT500s have enjoyed success on the drag tack b/c that's the direction Ford/Mustang has taken (IMHO).

My points are this:
1. for the price, there's "better" (value) cars in the market. Enough to make consumers question their Mustang allegiance. The 2020 GT500 isn't a Henry Ford car, it's quite the opposite and historically, Mustang has won the value positions in the market when compared to it's Pony Car competition. There's only so many single minded Mustang consumers who have the means to buy a 2020+ GT500.

2. Ford has had two years to know where the center of the target is: the Crapmaro ZL1 1LE. Consider this in contrast to the 2013 GT500, which prompted the head of Crapmaro Nation at GM to write an apology letter. I don't think Crapmaro Nation is worried TBH... BTW, when the 2013 GT500 landed with 662HP, it reset the bar (in Pony Car HP and top speed). What has been "reset" with the 2020 GT500? The transmission? The Ford/GM A10 speed gets high marks as well, is it just as good as the Tremec DCT?

3. ADM will disappear but in the meantime, it's made cars which will easily handle a 2020 GT500 come into the conversation/view, e.g. C7 Z06s, 2019 Corvette ZR1s and certain Vipers. I think C6 ZR1s would also handle a 2020 GT500 without trouble.

So my observations are about the value and to some degree, impact/importance. Is the value there to justify the prices? In the Pony Car market: it doesn't have the most HP, top speed and best 0-60.

Maybe Ford should have focused on removing 500-750 pounds from the Mustang vs adding more power if it thinks it can punch above it's weight (pun intended) with the 2020 GT500?
 
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P5Boy

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biminiLX said:
Let’s see a review with same driver on same day.
I’m waiting to see the ZL1 1LE auto vs CFTP GT500.
And even then, which car has more potential with basic mods.
That’s the huge factor many forget, how much potential does the platform hold for the common mods?
I’ll take the 5.2/TVS2650/TremecDCT all day.
-J
Click to expand...

I agree that there needs to be more direct and specific shootouts between the Crapmaro and Mustang but I am worried that folks now perceive the 2020 GT500's competition has moved to the Corvette (from the Crapmaro) b/c of Randy's recent comparisons.

Well, sure, I for one would also take (pretty much) _any_ Mustang over a Crapmaro, but when the Mustang price reaches the prices for performance model Corvettes (and used Vipers), I start to put serious consideration into the decision.
 
P5Boy

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tt335ci03cobra said:
Zle should be pretty quick in Randy’s hands, the gt500 cftp will still be faster.

Even the zl1 1le struggles to put power down in 2nd on corner exit. Motor makes lots of torque earlier than the 5.2. Consequence is with 650hp of motivation, meaning less available acceleration, it is dealing with more torque than needed to scoot 3900lbs around a track.

The 4070lbs cftp gt500 has more usable power everywhere on track, and a dct to handle tight situations and complex transitions.

While Randy Phobst might get a Zle within a second of a cftp gt500, the average drivers nation wide will run well ahead of zle’s in just handling pack gt500’s.

I’ll wait to brag later about calling this from now.
Click to expand...

Me too. I am with you here.

I _think_ the manual ZL1 1LE comes in under 3900#s, my memory wants to say high 3600s?

I suspect (or hope) that any new comparison between the ZL1 1LE and GT500, the ZL1 1LE uses the A10 (which is faster than the manual). I do think that fight will be much, much closer than folks think.
 
RonParsons

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P5Boy said:
Respectfully, I think the ZL1 1LE will easily handle (on a circuit) the 2020 GT500. I think it will turn into a real fight with a CFTP equipped car. Generally, GT500s have enjoyed success on the drag tack b/c that's the direction Ford/Mustang has taken (IMHO).

My points are this:
1. for the price, there's "better" (value) cars in the market. Enough to make consumers question their Mustang allegiance. The 2020 GT500 isn't a Henry Ford car, it's quite the opposite and historically, Mustang has won the value positions in the market when compared to it's Pony Car competition. There's only so many single minded Mustang consumers who have the means to buy a 2020+ GT500.

2. Ford has had two years to know where the center of the target is: the Crapmaro ZL1 1LE. Consider this in contrast to the 2013 GT500, which prompted the head of Crapmaro Nation at GM to write an apology letter. I don't think Crapmaro Nation is worried TBH... BTW, when the 2013 GT500 landed with 662HP, it reset the bar (in Pony Car HP and top speed). What has been "reset" with the 2020 GT500? The transmission? The Ford/GM A10 speed gets high marks as well, is it just as good as the Tremec DCT?

3. ADM will disappear but in the meantime, it's made cars which will easily handle a 2020 GT500 come into the conversation/view, e.g. 2019 Corvette ZR1s and certain Vipers. I think C6 ZR1s would also handle a 2020 GT500 without trouble.

So my observations are about the value and to some degree, impact/importance. Is the value there to justify the prices? In the Pony Car market: it doesn't have the most HP, top speed and best 0-60.

Maybe Ford should have focused on removing 500-750 pounds from the Mustang vs adding more power if it thinks it can punch above it's weight (pun intended) with the 2020 GT500?
Click to expand...

How would one remove 500-750 pounds to this car without going full carbon fiber chassis / twin turbo?
 
ZYBORG

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P5Boy said:
Me too. I am with you here.

I _think_ the manual ZL1 1LE comes in under 3900#s, my memory wants to say high 3600s?

I suspect (or hope) that any new comparison between the ZL1 1LE and GT500, the ZL1 1LE uses the A10 (which is faster than the manual). I do think that fight will be much, much closer than folks think.
Click to expand...

ZL1 1LE is 3.8k lbs. it also only comes in a manual. DCT is a HUUUUUGE advantage for the stang, as well as the bigger more efficient blower.
 
P5Boy

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ZYBORG said:
ZL1 1LE is 3.8k lbs. it also only comes in a manual. DCT is a HUUUUUGE advantage for the stang, as well as the bigger more efficient blower.
Click to expand...

It does? Isn't the "Paddle shift automatic transmission" for $1595 the A10?

upload_2020-1-3_22-6-21.png
 
P5Boy

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ZYBORG

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jvandy50

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ZYBORG said:
I am not sure about that document, but I assure you the 1LE ZL1 only comes in manual configuration.
Click to expand...
It was manual only in 2018, but they began offering the A10 in 2019, which surprised many and upset some who would’ve held out for the auto.

I can’t remember what it was, but there was some kind of GT500 news/announcement and Chevy released the A10 availability then NEXT day. The amount of petty in that move made me chuckle a bit.
 
P5Boy

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I _suspect_ it's an option now b/c of the 2020 GT500 DCT. I don't know _that_ much about Crapmaros, so I'm just speculating.
 
Klaus

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ZYBORG said:
I am not sure about that document, but I assure you the 1LE ZL1 only comes in manual configuration.
Click to expand...

I can assure you that you are wrong. 10A available as of 2019. I specced one out before deciding to get a HC instead.
 

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