Motor Failure Causes??

Zemedici

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That is crazy.

At that rate, you'd never need to put it on jack stands and change the oil because it would literally always have fresh oil in it.

best part is it takes special 5w50 oil that's $15-20 qt.

Guys I know were instructed to 'check the oil every time you put gas in it'

lmaooo
 

HISSMAN

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That is crazy.

At that rate, you'd never need to put it on jack stands and change the oil because it would literally always have fresh oil in it.

This is meant to be tongue and cheek, but is it far from the truth? Change the oil filter out and move along. On another note.. Where is the oil going, and what is it potentially fouling up along the way?
 

gimmie11s

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Exactly.. I wasn't exaggerating because that's exactly what it would mean. Swap filters and done LOL.

Good question on where it's going. Ford needs to produce some answers!
 

HISSMAN

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To be honest, since this is a known issue, and being that I deal with the EPA on almost a daily basis, I can't believe that they aren't all over this.
 

Weather Man

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To be honest, since this is a known issue, and being that I deal with the EPA on almost a daily basis, I can't believe that they aren't all over this.

As long as the cats can handle it and maintain emissions, no problem. I personally would run a catch can breather system with a hose routed down to the bottom of the car. Just let her drip on the fly.
 

ANGREY

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As long as the cats can handle it and maintain emissions, no problem. I personally would run a catch can breather system with a hose routed down to the bottom of the car. Just let her drip on the fly.

Two different issues. Your proposal is only solving the PCV blow by which is present on nearly all modern cars (most people just don't take notice or care).

No one is "catching" enough oil in the PCV system to account for the oil loss some people are experiencing. That oil is either blowing by the rings or some other route out the exhaust.

Ford may be mum for any number of reasons. Because they're worried about class action suits. Because they're scared of fines from the EPA, etc, etc.

I suspect that it has something to do with either aluminum cylinders or the new sleeving method (or both) and it's blow by when the cylinders are cold and slapping the walls until it heats up and mates properly. Others have presented equally compelling theories. Either way, it's inconsistent in nearly every aspect. Some cars start burning right away, some wait tens of thousands of miles, some haven't burned excessive oil at all. Some are guys that drive hard all the time, some are guys that keep a garage queen and never drive it. Tech pack, Track Pack, 2017+, R model, there's no consistent factor to give further insight into what's causing it.

I imagine Ford has at least an idea, but they're not going to say until the costs of warranty claims and replacements are MUCH greater than the cost of a recall.
 

jvandy50

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you're lucky. Not everyone is in the same boat, as Curt said above, guy had 3 engines in the same car : Stock unit + 2 replacements.

That's ABSURD for what these cars cost....
Oh, that’s what is called “driver error” by those who think there isn’t a problem.

And i completely agree with @ANGREY as I’ve paid a lot of attention to this, and it happened to me, there just is not a pattern to any of it.
 

JAJ

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...I’ve paid a lot of attention to this, and it happened to me, there just is not a pattern to any of it.
I agree completely - there's just no pattern to the symptoms. Either of the two problems, if there are really two problems, could have many different causes. The one thing that seems to be repeatable is the "un-repeatability" of the failures - sometimes the "loss of oil pressure" issue happens on the way to the next braking zone and sometimes on the way to the mall. The problem seems to come at the premature end-of-life of a component (ie - a manufacturing defect) rather than because of something that's wearing out or being over-stressed. Same with the oil consumption - it just seems to switch from low to high consumption at some point and from then on the engine's on its way to replacement - there's no recovery.

My pet theory on the high oil consumption is that it's a valve-guide seal issue, not a piston ring problem. Although I suppose if it was that simple there'd have been a running change by now and it would have stopped on newer engines.
 

AustinSN

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you're lucky. Not everyone is in the same boat, as Curt said above, guy had 3 engines in the same car : Stock unit + 2 replacements.

That's ABSURD for what these cars cost....

More people have good engines than bad.

If more engines were failing than were good, there would be some significant changes.

My car burns .5 qts every 1500 miles, which isn't an issue for me. 12 quarts shipped is like $90, so I have extra oil between changes but because the car sees the track and gets a change ever 1000-2000 miles or so, I end up having oil laying around.

If it increases consumption in the future, I'll let Ford replace it. Seems like as soon as that happens you get yourself an extended warranty for free. I like the car too much to get rid of it. I can't think of a replacement I would prefer and can afford, aside from an R.
 

Zemedici

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More people have good engines than bad.

If more engines were failing than were good, there would be some significant changes.

My car burns .5 qts every 1500 miles, which isn't an issue for me. 12 quarts shipped is like $90, so I have extra oil between changes but because the car sees the track and gets a change ever 1000-2000 miles or so, I end up having oil laying around.

If it increases consumption in the future, I'll let Ford replace it. Seems like as soon as that happens you get yourself an extended warranty for free. I like the car too much to get rid of it. I can't think of a replacement I would prefer and can afford, aside from an R.

Ahhhh I did not know the oil had dropped in price. Touche sir.

I mean...its big enough of a problem for Ford to create addendums to the GT350 owners manual.... Its no 'small issue' but I will agree there are more 'good cars' than bad. I just would NOT want a bad one. And Ford is being kinda hush hush about it, which is odd. No one REALLY knows the failure point.

And for the replacement motors to fail also, wouldn't that sort of sour your taste to the car?
 

AustinSN

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I mean...its big enough of a problem for Ford to create addendums to the GT350 owners manual.... Its no 'small issue' but I will agree there are more 'good cars' than bad. I just would NOT want a bad one. And Ford is being kinda hush hush about it, which is odd. No one REALLY knows the failure point.
Ford is typically very quiet when it comes to issues. With the RS, we still don't know what the exact issue was, but apparently it was a big enough problem for Ford to replace every head gasket on those engines. Ford still hasn't told us why the phasers in the 3 valves all seem to be bad as soon as it hits 100k.

Most engines get replaced due to consumption, of the engines that have blown, quite a few of them were from oil filters coming off and the engine starving, it was enough that Ford redesigned the oil filter setup. I've even seen failures from the oil sensors not being tight.

I try to look at in terms of chance, even if there is a 10% chance that my engine will consume too much oil and need to be replaced, I know it has a warranty. With a free extended warranty after that, I know I can rely on Ford to cover it for 8 years and then it's just the gamble afterwards.

The cars generally show their issues early on (sub 10k) range, I've only heard of 1 engine being over that where it had a problem. The guys with 20-40k miles are chugging along just fine.
 

HISSMAN

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Then we have to remember that only a small minority of owners actually ever visit a message board, or are active in social media to the extent that we would have heard about issues.
 

GTSpartan

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They could have gotten there with a 5.2 CPC if they wanted (GT350 numbers). They however decided to do something different. Having said that, just because you can, doesn't mean that you should.

To add to that. Most of the inherent advantages of a FPC vs. CPC were given up during development. I know you guys will probably shoot me over this, but it is almost a marketing gimmick.

When you look at what Ford could have offered in a conventional CPC for the $ they spent on developing the FPC, it looked mighty tasty.
 

jvandy50

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Then we have to remember that only a small minority of owners actually ever visit a message board, or are active in social media to the extent that we would have heard about issues.
man i want to like this ten times. i see the best comments from people who can't math..."we can't even come up with 1% of failures from those reported on the web"..."there were 20,000 made so we aren't even at 1% yet"...see it all the time. the other site had 40ish reported failures out of 304 members before a lot of 1 and 2 post people started pouring in. i understand a false positive and sample size and yada yada, but man that was telling.
 

gimmie11s

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Most engines get replaced due to consumption, of the engines that have blown, quite a few of them were from oil filters coming off and the engine starving, it was enough that Ford redesigned the oil filter setup. I've even seen failures from the oil sensors not being tight. ...

Lots of weird stuff with this gen motor. The Gen3 Coyote shares A LOT with the voodoo which is good and bad, obviously.

Funny you mention the above.. I pulled the oil pressure sensor out of the oil filter housing on my '18 for my turbo feed install and it is just past hand tight from the factory. They also changed the thread size and pitch on the Gen 3 on this sensor which is a departure from all 11-17 coyotes. It is now an aluminum sensor with an o ring for sealing and m12 1.5 size/pitch vs the 1/4 npt that has been there prior.

Ive read some of the oiling failures have been due to that o ring'd design on the pan pick up tube--which is unfortunately also carried over to the Gen 3 coyote.
 

AustinSN

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Lots of weird stuff with this gen motor. The Gen3 Coyote shares A LOT with the voodoo which is good and bad, obviously.

Funny you mention the above.. I pulled the oil pressure sensor out of the oil filter housing on my '18 for my turbo feed install and it is just past hand tight from the factory. They also changed the thread size and pitch on the Gen 3 on this sensor which is a departure from all 11-17 coyotes. It is now an aluminum sensor with an o ring for sealing and m12 1.5 size/pitch vs the 1/4 npt that has been there prior.

Ive read some of the oiling failures have been due to that o ring'd design on the pan pick up tube--which is unfortunately also carried over to the Gen 3 coyote.
Yeah I've heard about the oil pan pickup problem.

I don't think it's one specific issue with this engine. It's almost like a quality control problem.
 

HISSMAN

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Ford needs to quit fixing what isn't broken. I get that more power is great, but there is no reason why changing threads on something or insert other erroneous change, needs to be done. It is like a software engineer has made a product that is perfectly fine, then they go about saying...but if I change this line of code.. Then the next thing you know they have to make 20 patches to fix what they just broke. All of this instead of KISS and realizing if it works, don't fix it.
 

ANGREY

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Ford needs to quit fixing what isn't broken. I get that more power is great, but there is no reason why changing threads on something or insert other erroneous change, needs to be done. It is like a software engineer has made a product that is perfectly fine, then they go about saying...but if I change this line of code.. Then the next thing you know they have to make 20 patches to fix what they just broke. All of this instead of KISS and realizing if it works, don't fix it.

Never going to happen. In a graduated industry, the profits gradually shift from final assemblies, to components to eventually repair and service.

You could LITERALLY take a brand new vehicle, separate it into it's thousands of parts and if you were actually able to sell each part, you could sell the vehicle for much MUCH more than it's worth or sold in whole.

Part suppliers and sub vendors have agreements with auto manufacturers (which change all the time) which is part of what drives changes. Then on top of that, the components parts makers WANT and even obligate the manufacturers to change/update parts. It's what keeps the components expensive.

Imagine how efficient and cheap it would be if every manufacturer or even within the same make they used common and continuous parts. Imagine a world where Ford used the same oil filter on every vehicle. Or the same bulbs for the various lights.

I bought a 1999 Mustang GT and soon after wanted a Bullitt intake (which at the time was the only aluminum aftermarket intake available for the 2V modular). I had it ported, then realized aside from the asinine cost of the intake, the cost of the swap was doubled with all the various small parts and pieces that Ford changed from the 1999 GT to the Bullitt. Throttle cable. Why in the **** would you need to change the throttle cable. I can see the length changing, but all the parts/pieces, attachment style, etc?

It's just the way it is.
 

evasive

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best part is it takes special 5w50 oil that's $15-20 qt.

Guys I know were instructed to 'check the oil every time you put gas in it'

lmaooo
And Ford oil sucks when you send it in for an oil analysis after you drain it. I quit running their 5W50 years ago after the oil reports I got back...switched to Amsoil 10w40 as did a lot of people and stuck with it based on the oil reports.
 

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