Mm firewall adjuster binding when bolting to firewall

kill3rwsv

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So far I have been successful not asking questions around here, have always been able to find the information I needed. But this one has gotten both me and my dad(dad has been mechanic for 30+ years and run his own shop for 20 of those).

I have a 2001 Ford Mustang cobra convertible. Had the usual TOB CHIRP, couldn’t keep clutch adjusted properly, and car has just hit 72k so we decided to go ahead and replace clutch kit and swap to MM quadrant, adjuster, and cable assembly(MMCP-51). I know many around here and most of the other forums both use and recommend this kit. Installation of this kit is where the problem lies....

When installing the firewall adjuster it hits the under part of the windshield wiper valley when it goes through the firewall(if adjusted more than about 1/3 of the way in), which causes it to bind where it can only be turned with apair of large pliers. Took us a few to figure out what was causing the bind but there is no doubt. Attaching pics of adjuster out to touching valve cover(pretty much all the way out), and then adjusted in car as we can go before hitting body.

I’ve tried looking it up myself, and have found nothing to help me. It always takes me to quadrant adjustments but nothing about firewall adjuster binding.

I did find ONE post on another forum where they had this problem and had to shave the firewall down to offset it and make it fit, but that also means making two new holes in firewall. Dad not totally against that but we would really like to avoid this if at all possible because that is a modification that can not be undone.

Dads questions: Surely someone has seen this problem before? Firewall flex problem maybe? Convertible related? Is there a different adjuster for a convertible because the website never asks for body style just sub model?

All the questions he can think of for now. If more info needed let me know.

William
 

P49Y-CY

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i don't have an exact solution for you, but i can say with reasonable assurance that it has nothing to do with the body style. i am almost positive that all 01-04 mustangs utilize the same firewall (maybe even 99-04).

perhaps some pictures of the underdash area and where it is hitting would help too.
 

FIREBALL

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Just going by these photos it looks like the possibility that there has been some prior damage and repair to that area as the welds on the top of ledge do not look factory (but it could be just the photo).
 
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OldSkool

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This is Billy I am William’s dad. Figured I’d better create my own account so we don’t have any confusion about who’s posting what.

I mentioned something in the first post about being a convertible because I thought there may be some kind of different support around upper dash and windshield area because of being a vert. If not then I can at least eliminate one thing off the list.

So where the cable goes through the firewall is directly under the well below the windshield wipers. That is the way it looks to me anyway without removing plastic to verify. The collar that bolts on has clearance but right beyond that the adjuster hits the bottom of that well. It can still be turned but is super tight because it hits that well right past the end of collar, and can only be done with channel locks. That’s why the adjuster is scratched around edges in first pics we posted because I turned with pliers before realizing what was happening. Once everything is apart again I should be able to get a pic from outside in to show where it’s hitting, as well as from inside looking up.

Asking him to find the other post we read about someone else having this problem. Their answer was to shave the firewall. I really don’t want to do that because also involves drilling new holes and those are mods that can’t be undone. If we can find a link I will get him to respond here with it.

I am heading back to shop after I get something to eat and will take a bunch of pics starting with empty hole all the way through installing, and will include inside and outside pics. Will also include pics with measurements of adjuster parts. Hopefully forum won’t flag me for uploading a bunch of pics since I am a new member. If there’s a certain way I should upload pics let me know, like a few at a time, should I do just thumbs or is full size fine, etc.

Far as not being factory welds not sure about that. They are pinch welds and most shops don’t have that type of capability. Maybe if it was a little cleaner we could see things better(sorry kid figured I’d say it before they did lol). Car had clean carfax when bought from dealership. But we will be investigating that further.

On a side note we have the full 2001 Ford shop service disc so if there’s anything anyone needs let us know. We may not be able to give much back to the community but we can help there. Have other shop service softwares too for most years of everything so again if we can help we will.

Will be back in a little while with some pics of everything. Thanks for the help so far and in advance for any help/opinions offered.

Billy


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shurur

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my firewall adjuster is attached via the screw hole on the bottom as opposed to the top mount hole that you are using. maybe everyting will align better for you that way.
 

OldSkool

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my firewall adjuster is attached via the screw hole on the bottom as opposed to the top mount hole that you are using. maybe everyting will align better for you that way.

I was using both bolt holes like the original cable. If both pieces were metal of any type I would try that but the collar is plastic so don’t want to chance it.

Thanks for input.

Billy

Edited to add: Was wondering did you leave a bolt out for a reason? If I leave out top bolt that will kick it up worse into under body. But if I left out bottom it might kick it down enough to clear.

My main worry with leaving out a bolt is when he’s slamming gears and giving the clutch hell the plastic could move and if it does when it slams back down it will crack. Maybe even break in half.

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OldSkool

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Sorry for the delay(fell asleep last night), here are the pics promised last night...

IMG_5482.JPG

Shot inside from floor up. You can clearly see where the adjuster ate the paint before I figured out what was going on.

IMG_5477.JPG

Engine bay pointing up toward windshield through the adjuster hole, again can clearly see where adjuster was rubbing.

IMG_5479.JPG

Straight on as I can get from engine bay into car. You can see the bottom of the windshield wiper well is just a hair bit lower than top of hole.

The collar will bolt in fine but you can not screw the adjuster in even half way before it hits the bottom of well(previous pics show how far we can go before hitting).

IMG_5484.JPG

Just a pic of general area of firewall. No evidence of bending/flexing of metal anywhere around that area. Straight edge still straight as can be and laying a 6 inch metal ruler straight edge across it any direction shows no low spots.

If anyone wants more pics let me know will be here all day I’m sure. Thinking if I have to modify anything it would be better to take a 3/4” brass punch to the underside and persuade it up just a little opposed to cutting firewall. At least if I bend it up I can still return that to normal at a later date which I can’t do if I cut and drill anything.

Opinions and suggestions quite welcome.

Billy


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01yellercobra

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Just curious, but have you tried to attach the cable and adjust it yet? I don't think I've ever had a set up that stayed totally bottomed out. As long as you don't need that last little bit I wouldn't bother with drilling extra holes or anything.
 

FIREBALL

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Does it easily screw all the way in and out when removed from car? I screwed my adjuster (2001 coupe)all the way in and got under the dash and there is about 1/4" of clearance. There are some scratch marks similar to what shows in your photo that apparently was caused by the cable. Your bead of seam sealant looks a lot thicker than mine? It has to be a thread problem or the car was damaged and repaired at some point or some mess up from the factory.

Or car has been driven hard and/or jumped some curbs and because its a vert there has been some flex and distortion. Other than modifying I see the only other fix is going back to stock or finding another brand adjuster with an adjusting barrel that is smaller in diameter, 1/4" should do it.
 
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OldSkool

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Just curious, but have you tried to attach the cable and adjust it yet? I don't think I've ever had a set up that stayed totally bottomed out. As long as you don't need that last little bit I wouldn't bother with drilling extra holes or anything.

Sorry for the delay. Transmission still out right now. Son had to go back to college today and I had to take a few days off. It hits soon as it comes through end of collar so not sure if will work or not. Going from stock quadrant to this so it’s up in the air right now.

Thanks for the response

Billy


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OldSkool

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Does it easily screw all the way in and out when removed from car? I screwed my adjuster (2001 coupe)all the way in and got under the dash and there is about 1/4" of clearance. There are some scratch marks similar to what shows in your photo that apparently was caused by the cable. Your bead of seam sealant looks a lot thicker than mine? It has to be a thread problem or the car was damaged and repaired at some point or some mess up from the factory.

Or car has been driven hard and/or jumped some curbs and because its a vert there has been some flex and distortion. Other than modifying I see the only other fix is going back to stock or finding another brand adjuster with an adjusting barrel that is smaller in diameter, 1/4" should do it.

Yes screws all the way in/out very easily out of the car and I agree with the parts about the only way to fix. Car has clean carfax and we have met and talked to original owner. But I do keep coming back to it has something to do with being a vert. More flex in body or more support somewhere around windshield that makes the well deeper. And maybe that’s why the seam sealer is thicker?

I think best thing to do is get it from inside with a brass punch. Won’t take much, talking millimeters here. And by doing it this way I can always take plastic off above and repair what I’ve done, unlike the guy in the link William posted that cut his firewall.

Before doing anything waiting on a response from MM. Maybe they can shed some light on it. Who knows.

Appreciate the input.

Billy


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Jack Hidley

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Mr. and Mr. Vance,

In about 15 years, I've only seen this problem happen one other time. That was a couple years ago, also on an SN95 Mustang.

Ford obviously tries to build every car the same, but in certain cases that just isn't possible. In this case I think that the floor of the cowl was either bent a little differently or someone held it in the wrong location when they started spot welding it in place. When you really start to look into this stuff, there are a lot of potential ways that parts don't end up in exactly the same location, when they are not designed to.

Someone could have dropped the cowl piece before it got to the chassis. It looks unbent, so they go to put it in the car. Or it gets bent and someone reworks it not quite perfectly. In either case, once that part has been welded into the car with 15 spot welds, no one is going to pull it off the production line. The floor of it might be 1/8" lower than normal in that area, but without some type of measured inspection, no one will ever see that. This is especially true of any large weldment. They change shape as they are assembled and you can't rely on the exact shape of each individual part to make sure that the overall structure is correct.

When you are dealing with machined parts that are bolted together, the resulting tolerances are going to be much, much tighter.

In your case, I do agree that using a long, large diameter punch to push the cowl floor up in that area is going to be the best fix. I'll be surprised if you have to move it more than 0.060" or so.

BTW, excellent photos.
 

OldSkool

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Mr. and Mr. Vance,

In about 15 years, I've only seen this problem happen one other time. That was a couple years ago, also on an SN95 Mustang.

Ford obviously tries to build every car the same, but in certain cases that just isn't possible. In this case I think that the floor of the cowl was either bent a little differently or someone held it in the wrong location when they started spot welding it in place. When you really start to look into this stuff, there are a lot of potential ways that parts don't end up in exactly the same location, when they are not designed to.

Someone could have dropped the cowl piece before it got to the chassis. It looks unbent, so they go to put it in the car. Or it gets bent and someone reworks it not quite perfectly. In either case, once that part has been welded into the car with 15 spot welds, no one is going to pull it off the production line. The floor of it might be 1/8" lower than normal in that area, but without some type of measured inspection, no one will ever see that. This is especially true of any large weldment. They change shape as they are assembled and you can't rely on the exact shape of each individual part to make sure that the overall structure is correct.

When you are dealing with machined parts that are bolted together, the resulting tolerances are going to be much, much tighter.

In your case, I do agree that using a long, large diameter punch to push the cowl floor up in that area is going to be the best fix. I'll be surprised if you have to move it more than 0.060" or so.

BTW, excellent photos.

Funny I haven’t really thought of it this way. I’ve always loved fabrication, and have done my share of it, so you’d think that would be the first thing I thought of considering how many times I had to cut things apart and start over when I first started.

Makes perfect sense really and wouldn’t even have to be that part that was slightly bent. Could be anywhere in that general area. I’ve always explained it to the many young ones that have worked in the shop like this, since most of them had already done some type of carpentry work:

Think of it like this. If you are building a square deck you set your posts and brace them until the concrete dries. Then you come back and start on your sub floor. Let’s say you were off by a 1/16” on setting the center. By the time you get to your outside corners and check for square you will be an inch or two off because of that one sixteenth of an inch you let slide fifteen boards ago.

Same principle really. It could be off a fraction of a millimeter somewhere else that eventually ties into that part of the body which could translate to a few mm by the time it got to that point. And it has no effect structurally so no reason to scrap it and start over which is the only thing you could do. I imagine a ford engineer with exact plans and a lot of time could figure out exactly where the starting point is for what it’s off.

Thanks for that reply because I’ve been so tunnel focused on it I never thought of the simplest answer. I have some 2x2 and 2x3 pieces of flat steel, I think I will make a new punch out of one of those and a steel rod. I know for sure it needs only at most a quarter inch(that would give about an eighth inch clearance after install) to clear it and work properly.

Billy

ETA:Forgot to say these iPhones have a pretty good camera lol. And way easier to get into tight places like that than a regular camera. Thanks


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OldSkool

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Just going by photos this SVE adjuster looks to have the smallest diameter adjusting barrel, it may be your solution.
SVE Mustang Clutch Cable Firewall Adjuster (79-04) - LMR

There are a couple others that look smaller than the MM also but the above SVE looks like the smallest diameter. guess you have to make some phone calls to find out.

Yeah I’ve looked at most of them. I want to see what MM says in their reply. We sent a support ticket in to them but William couldn’t figure out how to send the pictures with it so gave them the link to this thread. Will post back when we hear back from them.

Billy


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01yellercobra

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Yeah I’ve looked at most of them. I want to see what MM says in their reply. We sent a support ticket in to them but William couldn’t figure out how to send the pictures with it so gave them the link to this thread. Will post back when we hear back from them.

Billy


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Jack Hidley is the guy from Maximum Motorsports. The long reply you like is from them.
 

Snk-Byet01

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I was using both bolt holes like the original cable. If both pieces were metal of any type I would try that but the collar is plastic so don’t want to chance it.

Thanks for input.

Billy

Edited to add: Was wondering did you leave a bolt out for a reason? If I leave out top bolt that will kick it up worse into under body. But if I left out bottom it might kick it down enough to clear.

My main worry with leaving out a bolt is when he’s slamming gears and giving the clutch hell the plastic could move and if it does when it slams back down it will crack. Maybe even break in half.

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I have an older MM adjuster and quadrant that I never used (I went with the Fiore). The adjuster is a two piece aluminum unit that has just one slot for the "bolt", nothing for the other OEM bolt. With what I have, if you keep the bolt semi loose, you might be able to turn the adjuster in without hitting the sheet metal. No guarantees, however.

If you want them, just pay for the moving costs.
 

OldSkool

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Mr. Vance,

MM did reply in post #13 above. Can you not see my signature?

Sorry, no the signature wasn’t showing in the app at the time of reply but William pointed it out to me later. Thank you for your help. Car is finished and back on the road, he had new tires put on this morning, and all just in time for his bday.

For reference I used a small 8-10?inch pry bar(actually just a nail puller) that had what I felt was a perfect 90 degree bend in it, was just the right length/width, and way easier to hold in place on the underbody area that had a curve to it. Punches, even the larger 3/4” brass punch, were very hard to keep in that one spot because I couldn’t watch and swing hammer at same time with such limited room to work. Curve of bar combined with the width of nail pulled head kept it in place and worked like a charm. Also used a 3lb short handle hammer(no room to swing a hammer there so wanted some weight behind it). 3 licks with the hammer flattened a spot and now the adjuster spins as freely as it did off the car. I did not get pics of tools or of car after flattening but can if wanted just might take a little while as he’s back in school. From the bottom up you really can’t see a difference in the body of car where it was hit except for the scratching of paint so not sure there’d be any benefit in that pic anyway. Can get pics of tools any time.

Thank you to all for your help/input,

Billy


ETA: Edited to say I just went back through whole post and only signature showing for me is my own and it’s the stock sig in the app that just says “Sent from my iPhone...” Haven’t changes any default settings in app.


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