MM&FF set on ruining 1331 mile Teal Cobra

19COBRA93

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I don't think the few TV cars have had much, if any, of an impact on the value of muscle cars as a whole. Maybe a select few, like the '67-68 fastback because of Bullitt and Gone in 60 Seconds. And the Charger from Dukes of Hazard, etc. What drives the market is all the people who had one at one point, and now wants one again, and those who wanted one then, but couldn't afford it, and now has the ability to get one. The current muscle car market is an example of that. And a big part of it is the baby boomers who are now reaching retirement and have a fat account of cash sitting there and those people who grew up seeing those cars can now afford to own one.

I think the fox will only continue to go up in value. But it's not going to be just any old fox. It'll be the select few desirable ones. Anything with black interior, the '92-93 metalic color LX's, coupes especially, and the strawberry red, or black with black interior bringing the highest. The 7-up cars. The '93 cobras, teal with black being the highest. The '92 limited convertibles with the yellow/black with chrome wheels bringing the highest. Clean low mileage solid color GT's (white, red, black) from '90-93. And going older, the '79 pace car, '85 and '86 GT's, SVO's (comp preps especially). Anyway, that's my brief list of fox's that will always bring good money, and would be good ones to hang on to.
 
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19COBRA93

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BiLL1024 said:
1993 Cobra 30,000 miles 15,000$
1993 Cobra 150,000 miles 10,500$
Driving that extra 120,000 miles Priceless
I agree with this. My teal '93 had 213,000 miles on it and I still got $12,500 for it. Granted it was turbocharged, in killer shape and made gobs of hp, but regardless, still held it's value. But was hardly original. I hit a deer twice, and hardly a bolt of the drivetrain was original to the car.
 
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Robert M

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19COBRA93 said:
My Boss 302 Cougar had long tubes on it when I got it and they were worthless. Cool back in the day, but now only took away from the cars' value. Luckily it still had the smog, and rev limiter. All the typical stuff that people threw in the trash long ago is now what's hard to find. Like airbox silencers on fox's, I'll bet they'll be a hard part to find years down the road. Imagine the value of an OEM console with a fully functional ash tray door. It's a rare thing now, and they're still failing daily.


I can think of very few Cougars that are in the bigger money, the Eliminators come to mind, but in most cases Cougars have never had a following like the Mustang. They are great cars, but they are not Mustangs, unfortunatly.

R
 

Robert M

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stangbear427 said:
Another thing to consider when discussing the "value" of classic muscle cars vs. the Fox is the likelyhood that a Fox will ever be viewed as they are. For example, one of the biggest reasons most of these old muscle cars are so desired is the very same reason there are so few of them. The General Lee comes to mind. Ask yourself, how many hundreds of '68 Chargers were destroyed making the Dukes TV shows, and compounding the issue, how much smaller would the Chargers cult following be today without the TV drawing so much attention to it, making it look so cool? The car was a legend in it's own time, the Fox isn't. The same could be said for the 60's Mustangs. At least the car in Bullet only brought exposure to a car that was cool off the showroom floor, but [the remake of] Gone in 60 Seconds has turned the '67-'68 Mustang market rabid to find cars to slice up and turn into Eleanors, 40 years after the cars hayday. I'm not saying nobody will ever try to use a Fox for a hero car or that when they do it won't start a revolution in the Fox market much the same way GI60 did for the '67 Shelby, but I kindof doubt it. What worries me is that if it does, at the rate we're burning up Fox cars like the dime-a-dozen cars they are, how many will be around to support the craze when and if it happens? You are more likely to find an unmolested classic muscle car than you are a Fox, and that's today. When the Fox is as old as the classic muscle is today, how many will be left then? I'm not sure what I'm getting at, or if I just argued on both sides of the fence, but I think ultimately I'm arguing the point that in the long run I don't think non-matching numbers is going to ruin all collectors value for any clean, stock example of a '93 Cobra... or even a GT for that matter. If anything, I think finding a good clean stock one will be harder in 25 years than finding a good clean stock 71 Mach1 is today. What's that going to do for value and demand?

LOL- especially since many of our Foxs did come with headers, not manifolds :lol:

Now are you comparing something like a "run of the mill" 318 powered Charger like was most likely used for the Dukes or are you comparing a 383, 440 cubic inch or Hemi Chargers which much fewer were built and most likely not used on Dukes for distruction because of their value, even back then. It is the top performer cars, the biggest engine cars that were produced during that time, in a specific body that bring the big $$$, not just any of them. How many plain 318cu.in. 68/69 Chargers did they make? How many more expensive 383 chargers did they make, and then 440's and then Hemi's? I have a feeling the numbers get smaller quick, and the price goes up quick.

The Mustangs are the same way, GT Hi-Po's pre-67 are the top $$$ cars if they are correct. When the big blocks came out in 1967, the 390 GT nad GTA, they are the big $$$ cars, then the mid 68 428CJ's, they are the top $$$ cars. If we move to the 71-3's, the only valuable ones that are currently and finally moving up in the collector car world are "1 year only" 71-429's Mustangs and the BOSS351's. There really was not much considered to be a "real" muscle car during the smog era, 1972-1984ish. Performance had died in comparision to the pre 1971 era. Yes, there were some "decent" performers, the 73/74 455S.D. Trans-Ams and a few others, but until the G.N.'s, especially the intercooled G.N.'s and the 85 or so 5.0 Mustang, performance was poor. These mid-80's cars are just now becoming of age and interest, and the the 1993 and R-Model are at the top of the list for the Foxes.

If the factory small/crimped tube headers that originally came on Fox cars were a great performance piece, they certainly would not have been replaced as much as they have been. Apparently, the stock headers that come on a Fox body, like the exhaust manifolds that came on most of the old muscle cars were not as good as something added after the fact, the original go in the trash, or on eBay.

R
 

19COBRA93

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Robert M said:
I can think of very few Cougars that are in the bigger money, the Eliminators come to mind, but in most cases Cougars have never had a following like the Mustang. They are great cars, but they are not Mustangs, unfortunatly.

R
I agree, and on the cougar forums I used to hang out on, many felt the boss cougar was probably valued 75% of that of a like/kind/quality boss 302 mustang. My cougar (Boss 302 Eliminator) was all original, unrestored, rust free, original paint, complete running driving, and had 75,000 miles on it. It wasn't perfect, but it was a nice original and had the original drivetrain except the engine was replaced by Ford back in '71 or '72 because of the issue Ford had with a lot of the Boss 302's engines. It was the rarest color, but the least desirable (Pastel blue). I sold it for $18,000 two years ago. I think a similar boss mustang would have been worth closer to $28-30k in that condition (then, over 30k now).
 
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Robert M

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BiLL1024 said:
1993 Cobra 30,000 miles 15,000$
1993 Cobra 150,000 miles 10,500$
Driving that extra 120,000 miles Priceless

Yes, miles vs. fun on a car as new as a 1993 model does not make a huge $$$ difference in many cases. Then again, 30K miles vs. 150K miles on a car that has reached the age of steady appreciation makes a huge difference. What about the $20K+ 1993 Cobra's I have seen mentioned recently on this forum, I think I saw $22K somewhere? Was it here where we watched the 93 5.0 LX on eBay go to $19K? It had very few miles, but it is "only" how old, 13? How could a car that is only 13 years old bring bids on eBay of $19K, when it was only $14K-$15K MSRP new? It is only 13. Just wait until this type of car gets older if it is already climbing at 13 year old. Why did it do so well? it was a Fox body, many, many thousands produced, not even a Cobra. It did well because it was a well preserved example in stock un-altered condition and few are left in this condition, even now at 13 years old.


R
 

Robert M

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19COBRA93 said:
I agree, and on the cougar forums I used to hang out on, many felt the boss cougar was probably valued 75% of that of a like/kind/quality boss 302 mustang. My cougar was all original, unrestored, rust free, original paint, complete running driving, and had 75,000 miles on it. It wasn't perfect, but it was a nice original and had the original drivetrain except the engine was replaced by Ford back in '71 or '72 because of the issue Ford had with a lot of the Boss 302's engines. It was the rarest color, but the least desirable (Pastel blue). I sold it for $18,000 two years ago. I think a similar boss mustang would have been worth closer to $28-30k in that condition (then, over 30k now).

The "one year only" 370 h.p. 1971 429 Cougars are the same way, in fact many will not even pay attention to them. It seems like any Cougar after 1970is not in demand at all, and very few 71 429 Cougars were built, but it's a Cougar. Many Ford enthusiasts are not interested in anything past 1970, that is why the 71 429 Mustang and BOSS 351 have taken so long to climb in price pre-71 performance Mustangs have been on the steady increase.

R
 

19COBRA93

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I know it's not a fox, but we have a '94 Pace Car on our show room with 75 miles on it, and it's never been registered. It's not for sale, but I can see that car bringing huge money down the road because it's virtually brand new. It get's started and warmed up and moved bi-weekly, and it's had it's share of people getting in and out of it, but otherwise it's perfect.
 

19COBRA93

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I'm a huge fan of the '71 'Boss 351 mustang. It's been considered the strongest mustang produced up to that point, but because of the body style it was never popular. You don't see them very often and they're sort of an underdog, but cool IMO.
 

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I seen a clean 91 8cl auto vert with 7K miles go for 8 grand. on autotrader.com.
To me a car is not an investment. I have a 401k at work I make 100% as soon as it goes in, my boss matches my contribution. And if it can do 10% a year that will double every 5 years or so.
Some one hit it on the head with the baby boomers and the old muscle car prices. So when the kids of today get older, will they want a Mustang, or something F&F like a 93 Honda Civic?
Does mileage matter a whole lot on the price of an old clean all original number matching Hemi Cuda? I doubt it.
There is one good thing with the mag doing this car.
It gives the 93 Cobra exposure.
Now if they only would make a movie with it in it.
 

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Robert M said:
Now are you comparing something like a "run of the mill" 318 powered Charger like was most likely used for the Dukes or are you comparing a 383, 440 cubic inch or Hemi Chargers which much fewer were built and most likely not used on Dukes for distruction because of their value, even back then. It is the top performer cars, the biggest engine cars that were produced during that time, in a specific body that bring the big $$$, not just any of them. How many plain 318cu.in. 68/69 Chargers did they make? How many more expensive 383 chargers did they make, and then 440's and then Hemi's? I have a feeling the numbers get smaller quick, and the price goes up quick.

Doesn't much matter. The last car show I went to last summer had over 50 60's Mustangs, and only 7 or 8 Chargers, five of which were orange and had rebel flags on them. You figure it out.

If the factory small/crimped tube headers that originally came on Fox cars were a great performance piece, they certainly would not have been replaced as much as they have been. Apparently, the stock headers that come on a Fox body, like the exhaust manifolds that came on most of the old muscle cars were not as good as something added after the fact, the original go in the trash, or on eBay.

R

...? Did my statement about the headers not look like a joke to you? Ouch.
 

Robert M

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BiLL1024 said:
I seen a clean 91 8cl auto vert with 7K miles go for 8 grand. on autotrader.com.
To me a car is not an investment. I have a 401k at work I make 100% as soon as it goes in, my boss matches my contribution. And if it can do 10% a year that will double every 5 years or so.
Some one hit it on the head with the baby boomers and the old muscle car prices. So when the kids of today get older, will they want a Mustang, or something F&F like a 93 Honda Civic?
Does mileage matter a whole lot on the price of an old clean all original number matching Hemi Cuda? I doubt it.
There is one good thing with the mag doing this car.
It gives the 93 Cobra exposure.
Now if they only would make a movie with it in it.

I agree. A Hemi Cuda was not an investment at 10, 13 or 15 years old either. It took time and the people who grew up with, and dreamed of these cars for them to become what they are now. It is all about "what you grew up with" and what was "hot" at that time. There was a day when flat-head Fords were the "hot thing", then the 55-57 Chevs and Fords, then the early 60's big cars, 409 chevs, 406 Fords, 421 pontiacs, etc. now it is the muscle cars from the era after the big cars. I remember when restored Model A's were in huge demand, that day, and generation has also passed. It is all about "what you grew up with". People who grew up in the 70's and early 80's had nothing to be impressed with from their time period, they look back to the 60's and early 70's for muscle. There is a 5.0 generation out there that at some point will buy for the first time, or re-buy, their dream. Time marches on.

R
 
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Robert M

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stangbear427 said:
Doesn't much matter. The last car show I went to last summer had over 50 60's Mustangs, and only 7 or 8 Chargers, five of which were orange and had rebel flags on them. You figure it out.



...? Did my statement about the headers not look like a joke to you? Ouch.


If none of the Dukes replicas were factory 383 cars or larger, they were just "Dukes replicas", not a whole lot of value in the collector car world. Now if they were a fully restored 440 or Hemi Charger from 68/69 (forget all of the Dukes stickers and paint), they would be big money cars, the factory R/T optioned cars etc. These would not be cars that have a 440 added after the fact, but instead a factory 440 or larger engine option car. If it was "the" Dukes original car, that would be of value, but replicas are all over, I have seen a few myself. The "top performers" of that year 68/69, as the 1993 Cobra and R-Models are the "top offerings" by Ford in 1993 are the cars "of value". Yes a 93LX might be faster, because its lighter, but there is a great demand for SVT which the LX is not.

Sorry, I did not catch the Fox header joke..............But I have looked at them and I see how they would "have to go", if performance is the ultimate goal for the car.
 
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19COBRA93

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I agree with that completely, and IMO, the "muscle car" craze we're seeing currently will die off in roughly 10-15 years when retirement funds start to dry up, and the market will be flooded with muscle cars. I think we'll see them drop by 50% in value within 15 years. While, fox's and other cars will start to really take off.

The people who grew up in the late 70's, early 80's aren't really into cars. When they retire 10-15 years from now, they won't be buying old cars, they'll be spending money on homes, and other things. That's part of the reason why I think the muscle car market will die off in that time frame.
 
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Robert M

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19COBRA93 said:
I'm a huge fan of the '71 'Boss 351 mustang. It's been considered the strongest mustang produced up to that point, but because of the body style it was never popular. You don't see them very often and they're sort of an underdog, but cool IMO.

Yes, the first factory Mustang to meet and beat the 71 BOSS 351 in 1/4 mile times was the 1995 Cobra R. ALL Mustangs before the 71 BOSS 351 and up until the 1995 Cobra R were not able to run consistantly in the mid to high 13's in stock showroom trim on original "as provided by Ford" tires.

R
 

Robert M

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19COBRA93 said:
I agree with that completely, and IMO, the "muscle car" craze we're seeing currently will die off in roughly 10-15 years when retirement funds start to dry up, and the market will be flooded with muscle cars. I think we'll see them drop by 50% in value within 15 years. While, fox's and other cars will start to really take off.

The people who grew up in the late 70's, early 80's aren't really into cars. When they retire 10-15 years from now, they won't be buying old cars, they'll be spending money on homes, and other things. That's part of the reason why I think the muscle car market will die off in that time frame.

There are even many "old school" guys guys who are now jumping into late models, they are no longer interested in the "old car headaches". When I go to Mustang shows I look at "who owns what"? I see many older guys own older cars, it only makes sense. I see very few younger guys owning older cars, again, it only makes sense. The older guys who own newer cars is normal, less headaches and much better performance all around than older technology. It only make sense that these "late models" move upward when their time comes. Remember a 1968 Shelby GT500 was a "late model" at one time. No matter what era you are from, performance sells, it always has and always will, unless we get to a point where there is a fuel issue, we won't go there.

R
 
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BiLL1024

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I did not want to take this thread off topic.
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/0/6/85743506.htm
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/3/6/86639436.htm
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/7/3/86589873.htm
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/6/8/86144468.htm
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/1/0/86587410.htm
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/7/1/86695871.htm
Here are just a few examples of old mopars for sale.
Most have been restored, not all, look at the crazy asking prices .
Most adds for them dont list mileage. Some dont list price either.
I would bet that if originals in the same condition,30k or 130k would bring in close to the same $$. And how could you prove it just had 30 or 130k or 230 even?
I Just dont think mileage plays that big a factor when you have a car that some one wants bad enough. And in this point in time, mopar is hot right now.
But hey I have been wrong before.
And if nothing else, you just got to see a few real nice cars.
 

19COBRA93

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I think if you're talking about the difference between a 130k miles and 230k, or 86k and 120k, etc. These would all bring similar money. But a 30k mile car would bring a considerable amount more money than something with 80k miles and especially a 130k or higher car. That is if it were documented and could prove it was original miles.
 

Robert M

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BiLL1024 said:
I did not want to take this thread off topic.
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/0/6/85743506.htm
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/3/6/86639436.htm
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/7/3/86589873.htm
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/6/8/86144468.htm
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/1/0/86587410.htm
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/7/1/86695871.htm
Here are just a few examples of old mopars for sale.
Most have been restored, not all, look at the crazy asking prices .
Most adds for them dont list mileage. Some dont list price either.
I would bet that if originals in the same condition,30k or 130k would bring in close to the same $$. And how could you prove it just had 30 or 130k or 230 even?
I Just dont think mileage plays that big a factor when you have a car that some one wants bad enough. And in this point in time, mopar is hot right now.
But hey I have been wrong before.
And if nothing else, you just got to see a few real nice cars.

Look at the price on that first car, the Superbird and that is with a 440, not a 426 Hemi. Also notice the difference in the two Hemi Road Runners, the modded car $79.9K, the original car $129K. <--Big Difference! I am not sure about the 440 Cuda, "440 Recreation"??? Notice the Hemi Cuda listed no price "call for price". The last one I heard about went into the $250K+ area, Yikes!!

Mopars are crazy money right now, they have been that way for quite some time.


R
 
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