Military personnel, who would you side with?

[61mmstang94]

Only so much we can do when we're on that short of a leash.

It would be an even shorter leash if it was against our own people on our own land.

What do you think they're gonna blow the place to pieces and leave nothing left? What sense would that make? They'd have a bunch of their own dead people and a destroyed land for what?

I'm not saying that a group of untrained civilians will out battle people who's job it is to fight. But history, back to the beginning of our country shows how much power an entire nation can have when they're fighting for their lives, so don't underestimate that.

 

[BDF8]

The only way I would betray the oath I swore to this country is if the government was directly putting my family in danger. Then all bets are off

 

[Mr.Bolt-on]

The only way I would betray the oath I swore to this country is if the government was directly putting my family in danger. Then all bets are off

So if your family was stationed in Japan or Germany you'd be perfectly fine with killing the crap out of the civilian population (their kids and families as well) in America if the government tried to take their guns or other freedoms and they rebelled fighting for what was right?

Hopefully you are not one of "those" guys.

 

[11dsgGT]

You've either had a bad experience, or do t know shit. Either way, you should STFU

Im saying that there are a lot of soldiers who know nothing but the regulation. Come off of leave and dont sign in, but at your place of duty, ucmj... dislike a soldier, hold them back dont promote to give them a chance to lead...overweight counsel, counsel, special pop ucmj... instead you could charge an extra day, promote and give responsibility/purpose, use your time to PT.
In every situation the leader does the right thing, but its wrong. There are so many people in the military who have this type of personality that there is no do doubt in my mind it wouldn't be any different than Syria....few stay with the government, but most leave to fight.

In this scenario there would be reason for the government to ask us to shoot civilians and that reason would be up to each individual soldiers interpretation.

I assume that you read the question, but failed to think why it would be asked. In your mind you only hear the question and that is exactly the point I am trying to make.

 

[wildride02gt]

before these orders ever got to a unit level, upper level commanding officers would threaten to leave, and take the soldiers with them. The Pentagon would never go through with this. Most soldiers still have their morals, and truly believe in values. Illegal and immoral orders have been given before, and officers, NCO's, and soldiers have refused to follow them. I offer the Army as an example. I served under GEN Odierno at Ft. Hood, TX when he was CG of the 4ID, and served with him in Iraq. He is an honest man, a soldiers soldier, and would never follow orders such as those in question.
I believe that a very large portion of the militaries senior officers would choose to side with the people, not the government, and would be taking their soldiers and equipment with them. We soldiers are family, and our families and the veterans are part of that family. The elected officials that would be issuing these orders are not part of that family.
Anyways, if this scenario was to begin to take place, then the bulk of the military will side with the people, the public, and the government will lose.

 

[UncleDan]

10 people actually voted for the government??

 

[only a gt]

I'm sorry but this is crazy.. I know that civilians out number Military.. But what the civilians forget is that when the military comes.. They aren't going to put soldiers down on the ground and hand to hand weapon for weapon.. They're coming with Apache's, Blackhawks, Air assets, missiles, etc. Stuff that civilians don't have..

But of coarse that would be if the military backs the Gov. But please don't think that they are just going to throw troops on the ground and hope for the best..

I doubt this will ever happen hahahaha. :beer:

The problem with air support, arty, ect is it all requires an insane amount of logistics to keep going. You have ordinance guys, fuel guys, ect refusing to go along with the government, then those Apaches are just expensive hanger ornaments. Motor T is needed to move that ordinance and fuel. Not to mention the maintenance required to keep any flying craft operational, without those guys keeping everything airworthy those aircraft are useless.

 

[glittle75]

Very hard question to answer, however I can say me and my family would go directly to base if things popped off.
I understand where this question is stemming from, and thats taking away firearms from citizens.
If there was a law, passed through government. It is my job to enforce it if needed. Period.

Would I be happy about it? Probly not, however, if no one enforces the rules, chaos ensues.

Maybe not the answer civilians want to hear, but its how I feel.

Would an uprising occur if the gov't decided to take firearms from people? Probly not.

People would bitch, moan, and complain. Then blame it on someone, and have them anyways. Just like thier weed, opiates, automatic weapons, and everything else regulated.

 

[PowerWheels]

If the need for the 2nd amendment is ever realized those innocents that have fallen, ones in the news recently included, will be thought of as heroes that gave their lives for our right to hold this country. I would hate to think anyone would blindly follow a government that was on the wrong side. I respect the training and weapons the military has, but with an all out resistance they stand no chance against civilians in the US. There are just too many people that are prepared and they are spread out everywhere. Also as mentioned above the military would split. The government chooses a slow and steady policy driven attack anyway, that's always been the plan.

 

[PowerWheels]

A lot of encouraging responses in this thread...depending on how you look at it I guess. And by the way, thank you to those of you who do currently and have served our country. :beer:



Yes we the people are the government, the problem is the folks in Washington always seem to forget this. For the first time in my life I finally started to do something about it by writing to my congressional representatives. I wish a lot more folks would start doing this as well and make an effort to actually get involved!

The government pays me to shred the mail before it bothers the representatives.

Not joking, I really think all the mail that goes to these people is ignored. It's a sad situation, they know whats right but just don't follow it.

 

[cobra_mer]

We also have a lot more technology and training than terrorist groups. Why can't we eliminate all of them???

The reason is; you cannot fight and win against an unconventional force with conventional means. This is exactly how we won against Britain, how we lost in Vietnam, and why we lose so many troops during OIF/OEF. Guerilla warfare, ambush tactics trump conventional squad tactics. Geneva convention/law of land warfare, Rules of Engagement all hinder the ability to “win” a war/conflict.

If the OP scenario played out and the military was used to suppress/neutralize the civilian populace, the same tactics would be used against the military and it would work in favor of the civi’s. Unless the Gov’t went in and blasted any and all things like Syria is doing they would not come out on top. :beer:

 

[EvergreenSVT]

The problem with air support, arty, ect is it all requires an insane amount of logistics to keep going. You have ordinance guys, fuel guys, ect refusing to go along with the government, then those Apaches are just expensive hanger ornaments. Motor T is needed to move that ordinance and fuel. Not to mention the maintenance required to keep any flying craft operational, without those guys keeping everything airworthy those aircraft are useless.

It's the tail of the military that is most likely to side with the government. The 11, 13, 18, 19 series are the least likely. Particularly SOF guys. I asked a friend in SOF what would happen if a JSOC/SOCOM targeting cell was stood up in the US. He said... "I'm not gonna do their hits and I don't know anyone who would. We might give the guys we like a chance to leave before we kill everyone involved."

 

[cobra_mer]

It's the tail of the military that is most likely to side with the government. The 11, 13, 18, 19 series are the least likely. Particularly SOF guys. I asked a friend in SOF what would happen if a JSOC/SOCOM targeting cell was stood up in the US. He said... "I'm not gonna do their hits and I don't know anyone who would. We might give the guys we like a chance to leave before we kill everyone involved."

This!

Coming from the SOF community as my last deployment not one single guy I knew/worked with would ever be apart of US cell mentioned above. Some of the SOF gus are not the smartest cookies but they are some of the most patriotic country loving individuals you would ever meet. They do not do what they do for the government, for the military or for their unit, they do it for their country and their brothers standing to their right and left. :beer:

 

[WireEater]

If you are serving and answered this you are dumb.

 

[ssj4sadie]

If you are serving and answered this you are dumb.

If the "bad guys" are looking, so are the "good guys". So it it can serve more than one purpose. Either as a recruitment tool or a detention/punishment tool.

All the comments I have seen wouldn't get anyone in trouble. Now for those with clearances they should be careful how they word their statements. Simply advocating a violent overthrow of the government can mean losing it.

 

[ITRIEDEL]

I'm sorry but this is crazy.. I know that civilians out number Military.. But what the civilians forget is that when the military comes.. They aren't going to put soldiers down on the ground and hand to hand weapon for weapon.. They're coming with Apache's, Blackhawks, Air assets, missiles, etc. Stuff that civilians don't have..
:

Sorry but I don't remember the insurgents having Apache's, Blackhawks, Air assets, missiles, etc. in Iraq and Afganistan, and we've been there for how long?


Sorry but worst case scenario, it goes into a balls out revolution. 80-90% of the military would desert, and the remaining, probably wouldn't even be in a combat MOS/RATE.

 

[1hot281]

If we fell into an all out revolution... foreign nations would get involved. This isn't the 1700's... and our government would call in favors from other countries armed forces, who would have no problem with our constitution and shooting American citizens.

Worst case scenario, other countries would use our infighting as an opportunity to launch an assault and try to take us out.

 

[blackvette101]

you guys realize if their was ever something like this scenario to happen it would be the blue helmets in the UN doing the door to door disarmenment and civil uprising supression. They already know their would be mass desertion. With the full backing of modern warfare technology and near 100% loyalty. At the end of the day it will never happen because thats not how dictators work. You erode rights away one after another slowly over generations. And then after 100 years you have europe in america or worse. Unless we go bankrupt then all hell breaks loose.

And the genius of it is that we do it to ourselves doesn't matter if its republican or democrat. We willingly gave up our 4th amendment rights with the patriot act because we were scared of terroroists. That applies to domestic terrorists too which is what you will be labeled as if you talk about standing up to your gov. Now half of america wants to give up the 2nd amendment because to "save the children". Wait until they say they need to erode the 1st amendment through censoring to stop violence from warping our minds. All politicians crave power and do these things but The radical left seem to be the only ones that will talk about it openly in books. They straight up say that absolute power will not come as you envision it at the barrel of a rifle. It just comes slowly but surely.

Look at today they will pass some form of gun control through exec order. and they may get universal background checks if they don't get greedy and try to ram everything through. Then the next shooting they will say that it didn't work because it did not go far enough and now they need more laws. And after enough shootings their will be no more civilian guns.

 

[69clark]

you guys realize if their was ever something like this scenario to happen it would be the blue helmets in the UN doing the door to door disarmenment and civil uprising supression. They already know their would be mass desertion. With the full backing of modern warfare technology and near 100% loyalty. At the end of the day it will never happen because thats not how dictators work. You erode rights away one after another slowly over generations. And then after 100 years you have europe in america or worse. Unless we go bankrupt then all hell breaks loose.

And the genius of it is that we do it to ourselves doesn't matter if its republican or democrat. We willingly gave up our 4th amendment rights with the patriot act because we were scared of terroroists. That applies to domestic terrorists too which is what you will be labeled as if you talk about standing up to your gov. Now half of america wants to give up the 2nd amendment because to "save the children". Wait until they say they need to erode the 1st amendment through censoring to stop violence from warping our minds. All politicians crave power and do these things but The radical left seem to be the only ones that will talk about it openly in books. They straight up say that absolute power will not come as you envision it at the barrel of a rifle. It just comes slowly but surely.

Look at today they will pass some form of gun control through exec order. and they may get universal background checks if they don't get greedy and try to ram everything through. Then the next shooting they will say that it didn't work because it did not go far enough and now they need more laws. And after enough shootings their will be no more civilian guns.

This is a wise man right here, and 100% right. I can't believe how many American can see just one of the things you point out, let alone the whole big picture.

Thank you for that post!

 

[Blown_By_You]

Well said! How are people so ignorant?