Mileage discrepancy on interior swapped C6 Z06

Cman01

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VIN 1G1YZ26E595114558

Ok, here are the facts to support my suspicion that the mileage is incorrect on my former 2009 C6 Z06 listed FS over on Corvette forum by the person who purchased the car from me about a year ago. Again I am not calling out the seller or anyone about possible illegal mileage tampering but he's had the car for a year + so ultimately he'll need to answer to the mileage discrepancy. This post needs to be linked over to his FS ad which is below:

FS (For Sale) 2009 Cyber Gray mint Z06, 23.5K miles, 2LZ, modded, CT - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Now there are a lot of #'s and dates that I'm going to throw out and I will try to keep them in some sort of proper timeline, if you are in doubt please read over this post again before commenting.

The seller purchased the car from me back on March 20, 2020. Funds were wired and received by me the day before and he flew up from Florida that morning to pick up the car and drove it back to his home in Old Saybrook, CT. The seller picked up the car with (37,500 kms) 23,301 miles and if you Google map the driving distance from my home in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada to his home in CT it is a distance of 522 miles.

Seller has stated in his FS ad that the total mileage on the car is 23,500 miles.

Inked-Screenshot-2021-05-08-05-14-36-LI.jpg


Going back to July 24, 2019 I did a walkaround video and at 2:32 the mileage of the car is shown as 36,980 kms (22,978 miles)

Full tour of 2009 Z06 - YouTube

On Sept 7, 2019 I did a cold start video for a different USA buyer and that sale fell through on his end so afterwards car was put back up FS. The mileage in this video is 23,080 miles (notice the gauge cluster here is switched to imperial and the vehicle is showing the mileage in miles)........2:44 in.

Corvette Z06 cold start - YouTube

On Dec. 13, 2019 I did another walkaround video and at 1:15 the mileage is shown as 37,334 kms (23,198 miles). It might be hard to see so here is a screenshot at 1:15 of the video and a zoomed in shot of the mileage.

2009 Z06 walkaround V2.0 - YouTube

Screenshot-2021-05-09-06-07-23.jpg


Screenshot-2021-05-09-06-08-08.jpg


Now we go to a few days before Keith is to pick up the car after he wired the funds. There have been a whole bunch of emails back and forth but these 2 are most relevant dated March 18 and March 19, 2020. Read the emails they should be quite understandable. There is a picture of the gauge cluster I sent in the March 18 email showing the mileage as 37,413 kms (23247 miles) and on March 19th 37,450 kms = 23,270 miles

IMG-20200318-150920.jpg


Inked-Screenshot-2021-05-07-14-24-14-LI.jpg


Inked-Screenshot-2021-05-07-14-23-00-LI.jpg


So as of right now if Keith purchased the car back in July of 2019 when I did the first walkaround video when the mileage was at 22,978 miles and drove it the 522 miles from my house back to CT the car would have 23,500 miles. Any mileage after that his drive home would put the car over the mileage stated in his ad.

After he got the car home during his 1+ year of ownership he did put some miles on the car. In his ad he mentioned participating in a dyno day mentioning what the car made on the dyno. The amount of miles put on the car during these drives and the dyno day is unknown.

A poster and supposed friend mentioned in his FS ad that the car won an award at Carlisle back in August of 2020. Google maps show a 1 way distance of 300 miles from Old Saybrook, CT to Carlisle, PA so total distance travelled here is 600 miles (probably more).

Screenshot-2021-05-07-16-16-12.jpg


So basically what do we have???? When you do the math.............

23,301 miles + 522 miles to drive home from picking up the car + unknown miles driving and dyno day + 600 miles to Carlisle and back = at least 24,423 miles (and probably even more). Remember seller also changed out the gauge cluster from the factory metric one to the USA imperial one. I am not familiar whether the car's actual mileage transfers over seamlessly or there is something someone has to do to have the proper mileage show after the swap. There is at least 1100 + miles unaccounted for so any prospective buyers might want to know what happened to those miles.

I'm pretty sure that he didn't only rack up 200 miles from when he bought the car from me to him selling it a year later, just his drive home from Mississauga puts the car 300 miles over his mileage listing in his ad so it doesn't add up.

So Keith needs to come forward and explain the mileage discrepancy, everything checks out on my end it doesn't on his.

BTW, when I first saw his ad and realized that he was selling the car he bought from me I noticed his mileage listing and in my head at that time I kinda thought it didn't seem right but the obvious change of the interior stood out more for me at that moment. Only about a week or so ago when I went through my old emails with him and saw the mileage listings I sent him and my YT videos did I realize that something wasn't right with the mileage on the car.

That's basically it and again if someone posts over on CF link this over there please. TIA and again buyer beware.

Tony
 
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FJohnny

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Summary:

Some guy talks to you about buying your car, makes a flight booking, pays you your money with no problems, ripoffs, fraud or beatdown on the price.

He takes the car home and decides to make some changes to HIS car.

He takes his car (unregistered, so maybe he trailered it?) to a show.

He decides to sell his car, unaware that the vehicle's previous owner has never let it go and has been cyber-stalking every move the car makes.

No offense, but might it be time to just let it go?
 

svtfocus2cobra

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I'm almost 100% GM vehicles store the mileage in the ECU just like most modern cars do because it prevents mileage tampering. You can swap guage clusters all day long and the mileage will always show correctly. If the mileage is that close from when he originally bought it then I would assume he trailers it everywhere.

Is this the guy who swapped the interiors? If so, believe me when I say I think he comes off as a scammer but in this case it is unlikely he was able to change the mileage without tampering with the ECU. It's just unlikely.
 

Cman01

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@Fjohnny^^^^^^Missed the non disclosure in his ad about the interior?

Maybe u should familiarize yourself with the whole story before making assumptions.

OK, so maybe he could've trailered it to Carlisle and taking 600 miles off the total mileage of the car leaves him 300 + miles off what the car should have for mileage.

Would u buy a car with more miles on it than what is shown in the cluster and taking the seller's word on what it has for an interior?
 

Dirks9901

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My thoughts, changing out the interior is one thing if you are up front about it. The cluster, that's pretty shady. Regardless if its a fairly low mile car. That's assuming that the mileage didn't transfer over. If it did, great. Where is the paper work and who/what dealer did it? If he has those things then carry on.
 

Cman01

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I'm almost 100% GM vehicles store the mileage in the ECU just like most modern cars do because it prevents mileage tampering. You can swap guage clusters all day long and the mileage will always show correctly. If the mileage is that close from when he originally bought it then I would assume he trailers it everywhere.

Is this the guy who swapped the interiors? If so, believe me when I say I think he comes off as a scammer but in this case it is unlikely he was able to change the mileage without tampering with the ECU. It's just unlikely.

Yes, this is the car with the interior swap and now mileage issue. I can tell you he didn't trailer the car when he bought it. Like I said in the original post driving it home from my house to his puts the car 300+ miles over what he says the total miles are in his ad........for starters.

Basically the car CANNOT have 23,500 miles on it total when it had 23,301 miles when he bought it from me and drove it 522 miles home to CT.
 
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Cman01

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My thoughts, changing out the interior is one thing if you are up front about it. The cluster, that's pretty shady. Regardless if its a fairly low mile car. That's assuming that the mileage didn't transfer over. If it did, great. Where is the paper work and who/what dealer did it? If he has those things then carry on.

He wasn't up front originally about the interior swap and changing the cluster isn't an issue but if the proper mileage didn't transfer over correctly then it's a problem.

I would not know if he did the cluster swap himself or a dealer did it but the mileage should be proper no matter what and it isn't.

What he should do is put up a picture of the dash showing the current mileage and we haven't seen one at all. When I was selling the car or any car there is ALWAYS a pic of the cluster showing the mileage.
 
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Junior00

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I'm almost 100% GM vehicles store the mileage in the ECU just like most modern cars do because it prevents mileage tampering. You can swap guage clusters all day long and the mileage will always show correctly. If the mileage is that close from when he originally bought it then I would assume he trailers it everywhere.

Is this the guy who swapped the interiors? If so, believe me when I say I think he comes off as a scammer but in this case it is unlikely he was able to change the mileage without tampering with the ECU. It's just unlikely.

A couple minutes with a half decent scan tool and I can change the VIN and odo. Biggest thing now is usually things of that nature and importance are stored in several different modules, but overwriting them is relatively easy. Newer vehicles are probably more difficult but this isn’t new.
 

gimmie11s

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A couple minutes with a half decent scan tool and I can change the VIN and odo. Biggest thing now is usually things of that nature and importance are stored in several different modules, but overwriting them is relatively easy. Newer vehicles are probably more difficult but this isn’t new.


Well... not everyone has the wizard capability you do!
 

svtfocus2cobra

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Yes, this is the car with the interior swap and now mileage issue. I can tell you he didn't trailer the car when he bought it. Like I said in the original post driving it home from my house to his puts the car 300+ miles over what he says the total miles are in his ad........for starters.

Basically the car CANNOT have 23,500 miles on it total when it had 23,301 miles when he bought it from me and drove it 522 miles home to CT.

I agree with you that it doesn't add up given the distance, but just letting you know from my experience dealing with guages, specifically on GM vehicles which I have done more swaps on than any other brand. It's just how new cars are built now to prevent tampering, but like Junior00 stated below me, it can be adjusted with a scan tool.

A couple minutes with a half decent scan tool and I can change the VIN and odo. Biggest thing now is usually things of that nature and importance are stored in several different modules, but overwriting them is relatively easy. Newer vehicles are probably more difficult but this isn’t new.

I don't doubt the ability to do it, but I am skeptical of how easy you say it is. We had both high end Snap-on and an Autel scanners and neither could do as you state because the manufacturers don't want just anyone to have that ability, they want the dealers to handle those issues because of legality. If you're using back-doors in the scanner then that is one thing and it goes beyond their normal function. GM SUVs have had known issues with their clusters so out of any brand I know the process on those the best.

I also know that if you go in and start changing things like you are suggesting that you are opening yourself up for a world of pain, especially on newer cars with a dozen or more computers. I've done programming before and even with all the special manufacture software, it pretty much never goes off without a hitch.
 

5.0 Hatch

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Seems like a lot of trouble and potential issues to only move it a few thousand miles at most...

Also my guess is it's not sitting exactly on 23,500. Could be 501 or maybe even 599.
 

Cman01

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Even after posting all this stuff up originally I really do hope that the mileage in his ad is an error on his part and he makes the proper correction and part of the correction is to show a pic of the cluster showing the current mileage.

If he doesn't show a pic of the mileage and doesn't change the mileage listed on his ad then in my eyes slim shady is at work.
 

Junior00

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I agree with you that it doesn't add up given the distance, but just letting you know from my experience dealing with guages, specifically on GM vehicles which I have done more swaps on than any other brand. It's just how new cars are built now to prevent tampering, but like Junior00 stated below me, it can be adjusted with a scan tool.



I don't doubt the ability to do it, but I am skeptical of how easy you say it is. We had both high end Snap-on and an Autel scanners and neither could do as you state because the manufacturers don't want just anyone to have that ability, they want the dealers to handle those issues because of legality. If you're using back-doors in the scanner then that is one thing and it goes beyond their normal function. GM SUVs have had known issues with their clusters so out of any brand I know the process on those the best.

I also know that if you go in and start changing things like you are suggesting that you are opening yourself up for a world of pain, especially on newer cars with a dozen or more computers. I've done programming before and even with all the special manufacture software, it pretty much never goes off without a hitch.

Don’t know what to tell you, done it first hand with a Maxisys Elite. If it has coding/programming functionality with actual access to all the functions and bi-directional control you should be able to do it yourself.
 

BlckBox04

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@svtfocus2cobra and @Junior00
If I wanted to change the cluster in my 08 z06 and have the mileage be legit is it something that needs to be done by a dealer or is it possible to do it myself
 

Cman01

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Narrow minded???? This situation can happen to any car including Fords and just putting the word out there to protect anybody looking to buy any car (in this case a Z06).
 

Junior00

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@svtfocus2cobra and @Junior00
If I wanted to change the cluster in my 08 z06 and have the mileage be legit is it something that needs to be done by a dealer or is it possible to do it myself

You can do it yourself, but no idea on legalities. I mean we obviously know tampering and changing of an odo is illegal, but just swapping clusters and copying over data is a grey area I guess. I did it on my old z71 with no issues, just wanted the Denali cluster but mileage and all I didn’t cheat on. Look up my vin on the state database and you can see the mileage at each registration event and it all adds up so...
 

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