Metco tensioner brace with aftermarket tensioners

[MalcolmV8]

Ever since switching to an Innovators West lower with integrated metco hub and running a Metco 4 lb lower ring with it my car is shredding belts left and right. Alignment seems just fine and car drives fine in normal to moderate throttle.

When I get on the throttle fairly aggressively (say 3rd gear) something happens where the belt seems to jump loose and walk forward, goes over the edge of the lower (I think) and slices off a couple ribs.

I thought the tensioner was just walking forward and bending out so I picked up a Metco tensioner brace and put on a new belt.

Hard to tell if it helped much or not because it survived a few minor pulls then boom same thing. I kept driving and hammered on it a few more times and noticed the belt jumped around even more this time. Even up on the blower itself it jumped over a few ribs. To me this seems like the sudden jerking of throttle the belt lost enough tension it gets loose and flaps over.

The side towards the front of the car is shredded off and then it jumped over too.

Possible my factory unit is just tired or maybe I need a shorter tighter belt or maybe I've just surpassed limits of stock tensioner.

I saw UPR has some billet tensioners that they list as stiffer than factory. Do those work with the Metco brace too or was that Metco brace just a waste of money?

Thanks for any feedback

Malcolm

 

[cj428mach]

How tight are you running the belt Malcolm? The only time I had that happen was when I was running the belt too tight it snapped and I lost part of the belt. I was running the belt tensioner approx. 1/2th of the way past where the stop would be if I hadn't cut it off. (It takes a lot of belt tension to try to hold those tiny pulleys lol.)

If you decide to go aftermarket tensioner let me know I have a buddy I can ask about his Thumper tensioner. Its probably only been on the car 3-6 months at most, he's going 4lb caged lower so its kinda over kill for him now.

 

[MalcolmV8]

How tight are you running the belt Malcolm? The only time I had that happen was when I was running the belt too tight it snapped and I lost part of the belt. I was running the belt tensioner approx. 1/2th of the way past where the stop would be if I hadn't cut it off. (It takes a lot of belt tension to try to hold those tiny pulleys lol.)

If you decide to go aftermarket tensioner let me know I have a buddy I can ask about his Thumper tensioner. Its probably only been on the car 3-6 months at most, he's going 4lb caged lower so its kinda over kill for him now.

The tensioner stop is now in the middle position. It's actually looser than what my old setup and belt was prior to 4 lb lower and 3.2 alternator pulley. That's why I thought perhaps a slightly tighter belt might do the trick.

Sure ask on the tensioner and let me know. Maybe I'll try a stronger tensioner and shorter belt.

 

[cozmo2806]

Malcolm, I had something sort of similar happen to me, but not quite as bad. Mine would just throw the belt right off for no apparent reason. What I found was that the alignment was spot on, but one of my idlers was out of square. I fixed the squareness and the problem went away. Check all of them and see if they are square with each other.

 

[MalcolmV8]

The only thing that's changed as far as pullies is the Metco setup and Innovator's west damper. I'll re-check all of that again.

 

[01cobravortech]

Malcolm, I had something sort of similar happen to me, but not quite as bad. Mine would just throw the belt right off for no apparent reason. What I found was that the alignment was spot on, but one of my idlers was out of square. I fixed the squareness and the problem went away. Check all of them and see if they are square with each other.

Technically speaking, if an idler was 'out of square' then its an alignment issue.

Malcolm, I had a worse rubber stain on the top of my hood than yours. Mine was a ported Eaton (2.76) though and I ran the Metco tensioner on my Lightning supercharger belt tensioner.

Though I suspected an overly tight belt, I found that 3 out of 5 of my idler pulleys (including auxilliary idler) were suffering some semblance of bearing failure. All were Metco double bearing idlers.

Obviously your setup is much more powerful and aggressive than mine, but for a belt to walk that much and shred, well you have an alignment issue somewhere.

You may have to put it on the dyno and 'watch it in action' to observe the belt movement and what is causing the forward thrust of the belt.

 

[MalcolmV8]

My idlers all got brand new bearings at rebuild (approx 800 miles ago, I need to check odometer) so probably not a bearing. However when I put the IW damper on and the 4 lb ring I also installed the metco bracket and idler on the side. I need to look that stuff over closer.

Now that I think about it when I had the alternator out and put the 3.2 Metco on it and spun it by hand it didn't look entirely true on the spin. Almost like it had a small wobble. Not just the pulley but the entire shaft of the alternator, I swapped the stock pulley back on and observed the same motion. I discounted it as me not looking at it properly since the alternator's been on the car quite some time and working fine but maybe with the larger pulley the slight off center wobble of the shaft is amplified.

However when the belt first shreds it's off the crank pulley so I'll check around that area first.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Oh and the marking on the hood is per belt I clean it all up each time and then get a new one.

 

[lescok]

I'm sure its something simple keep us updated.

 

[01yellercobra]

I'd triple check the Metco set up. A friend of mine is having a similar issue with shredding belts. The Metco crank pulley is about a rib width too far foward. We watched the belt jump on the crank pulley. The only way to fix it is to machine the hub a little.

 

[04sleeper]

It has nothing to do with the Metco tensioner and everything to do with belt alignment. I would check the alignment with all your pulleys. My old 04 has had the Metco tensioner on for years with a 2.6 upper pulley and has never once had a belt issue.

 

[01cobravortech]

I'd triple check the Metco set up. A friend of mine is having a similar issue with shredding belts. The Metco crank pulley is about a rib width too far foward. We watched the belt jump on the crank pulley. The only way to fix it is to machine the hub a little.

Interesting. I run the Metco crank pulley (stock diameter) and hub.

The 'machining issues' were corrected back in '13 I believe. The newer crank pulley and hubs should not have any requirement of any type of machining. How current is your friend's Metco crank pulley and hub? I just installed theirs this February. And it fits and aligns like a glove man. You may want to look more closely at the stock crankshaft dampner as your issue.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Interesting. I run the Metco crank pulley (stock diameter) and hub.

The 'machining issues' were corrected back in '13 I believe. The newer crank pulley and hubs should not have any requirement of any type of machining. How current is your friend's Metco crank pulley and hub? I just installed theirs this February. And it fits and aligns like a glove man. You may want to look more closely at the stock crankshaft dampner as your issue.

I'm using this Innovators West damper

It doesn't require the hub piece. The ring goes directly on it like this.

Partially installed in car

As for age I don't know. I got both items used. The 4lb ring and Metco kit I got from a buddy who had no belt throwing issues with it. The damper I got from a member on the site. If he'd had issues like this I'm sure he would have shared.

I really can't see the misalignment. I've been under the car eye balling as much as possible. Holding up a straight edge etc. For the life of me I can't see it. All I can come up with is tensioner or belt to loose but you'd think that just slips and not jumps forward a rib or two. Incidentally it's always the crank lower where the belt goes forward which is fed the belt from the tensioner.

 

[MG0h3]

I think I remember seeing a thread where someone had to space the ring further out.

If that lower is the only thing you changed to make the problem occur, I wouldn't look at anything else.

Only saying that because I've done the same thing myself and chased my tail forever before accepting the job I just did was the culprit.

 

[MalcolmV8]

I think I remember seeing a thread where someone had to space the ring further out.

If that lower is the only thing you changed to make the problem occur, I wouldn't look at anything else.

Only saying that because I've done the same thing myself and chased my tail forever before accepting the job I just did was the culprit.

I agree. Damper changed and lower. Bracket next to lower that holds idler changed (Metco kit instead of factory caged setup), alternator pulley changed.

I sure can't see the misalignment but I could certainly try spacing the lower hub out with some washers and see what changes.

 

[Quick Strike]

What position is the idler in the Metco bracket? I know it can rip belts if too close to the lower.

 

[Wicked46]

I had a similar issue a few years ago. I had a few problems that contributed to shredding belts.

1) I had my idler (from the metco kit) on the lowest hole closest to the balancer. Per the instructions, it says a 4lb lower or smaller, you should use that lower hole. NOT true. Use the hole above it if you haven't already

2) I had a BilletFlow aux idler that allowed the mounting bracket to flex. When i looked in the engine bay and "blipped" the throttle, you could see the belt walking and it ride on the outside of the alternator pulley.

Long story short, moving the lower idler pulley to the upper hole on the lower bracket, replacing the billetflow pulleys with metco's and installing a new belt fixed my issues. I also run the Metco tensioner brace too for the extra support.

 

[01yellercobra]

Interesting. I run the Metco crank pulley (stock diameter) and hub.

The 'machining issues' were corrected back in '13 I believe. The newer crank pulley and hubs should not have any requirement of any type of machining. How current is your friend's Metco crank pulley and hub? I just installed theirs this February. And it fits and aligns like a glove man. You may want to look more closely at the stock crankshaft dampner as your issue.

My buddies was used as well. Just wanted to give a different perspective since Malcolm is having a similar issue.

Malcolm, do you have one of those laser levelers for hanging pictures? I used one when I was having belt issues on my 01 with the Procharger. It wasn't off a lot. But enough to cause issues. The laser ended up showing me the problem area.

 

[MalcolmV8]

What position is the idler in the Metco bracket? I know it can rip belts if too close to the lower.

I had a similar issue a few years ago. I had a few problems that contributed to shredding belts.

1) I had my idler (from the metco kit) on the lowest hole closest to the balancer. Per the instructions, it says a 4lb lower or smaller, you should use that lower hole. NOT true. Use the hole above it if you haven't already

2) I had a BilletFlow aux idler that allowed the mounting bracket to flex. When i looked in the engine bay and "blipped" the throttle, you could see the belt walking and it ride on the outside of the alternator pulley.

Long story short, moving the lower idler pulley to the upper hole on the lower bracket, replacing the billetflow pulleys with metco's and installing a new belt fixed my issues. I also run the Metco tensioner brace too for the extra support.

Oh that's interesting. I can't imagine why that would shred belts but yes I have the idler in the lower position as instructed to in the Metco instructions. I will move it to the upper position and see what happens.

My buddies was used as well. Just wanted to give a different perspective since Malcolm is having a similar issue.

Malcolm, do you have one of those laser levelers for hanging pictures? I used one when I was having belt issues on my 01 with the Procharger. It wasn't off a lot. But enough to cause issues. The laser ended up showing me the problem area.

I'm sure I have a laser level or light somewhere I can dig up. You know I was really eye balling and looking over the crank pulley today while out and about when the hood was up and I swear I can see the Metco ring looking closer to the block than the other pulleys. I need to get under the car again and verify with a straight edge or laser light. Before when I was under I was concentrating so much on each pulley been square and true I may have over looked or missed that the crank pulley doesn't stick out as far as the others. We'll see.

 

[MalcolmV8]

OK I got it fixed! :banana:

I rechecked the lower with a straight edge to the other pulleys suspecting it was to close to the block but that was not it. It was dang perfect.

So I moved the Metco idler next from the lower to the upper position. I really don't see how that would do much of anything but I moved it anyways. I also installed the Thump tensioner I picked up which I believe to be the real fix.

Just watching the car running with the hood popped the Thump is in so much more control, the bobbing and movement is greatly reduced and when you nail the gas it doesn't flex and move near as much.

Went out and made a bunch of pulls on some open highway and no issues. Previously it would have shredded the belt 10 times over lol.