Megasquirt?

MalcolmV8

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I have it as well. I'm using flex fuel, traction control, and knock sensors. Like anything there's a learning curve as you figure things out. But my car is a street car and I have no issues jumping in and driving it long distance.

What settings do use on the knock sensors and how have your found their performance? I've played with the knock sensors quite a bit and not at a level where I really trust them. I find way too much "noise" and false positives. I have an aluminum block which I know changes things a little. Over time and many logs I've built a profile of each cylinder but still take it with a grain of salt.

I looked at the factory coyote tunes from Ford and how they configure their knock sensors and followed similar specs since it's still a mod motor. I've also tried various knock sensors. There's a specific brand of Bosch wideband (wide frequency range) sensor I found works better for me than the others I've tried.

All said I'm still not at a point where I'd trust it if I ever ran pump gas.

I will spin my cobra up around 7500 to 8000 rpm on top so wanting extra protection that the oem computer cant keep up with.
It's more than just extra protection, the stock ECU simply will not go that high. I find right around 7200 RPM is where they just stop.


BTW I see chatter above about self tuning. Just to clarify for those researching who are not familiar with these units that term is very misleading. While it's true the ECU can use feedback from a wideband and help dial in the fuel map or VE table it's a little more crude and should only be used to get a base map that you can then finish off properly yourself. When "self tuning" you have to remember things like EGO control, accel enrichments, decel and other driving characteristics are all going to mess with it. It does a great job for what it's designed to do but that's all.

When I hear "self tuning" I'm thinking start the car and let it dial itself in. It's nothing like that. You have to dial in manually where you want fueling to be, injectors, idle and EGO and flex strategies etc. accel enrichments, cold start fueling, crank fueling, dashpot settings, ignition timing tables etc. etc. The list goes on and on. All that must be manually setup. I know that's obvious to guys already playing with them but for new guys looking into it, FYI.

Also I saw a comment about lack of IO (inputs/outputs). Just so you know you can buy a microsquirt and flash it with a firmware that turns it into a straight up IO box. It then connects to any megasquirt based system, including the MS3 PNP for the cobras, via CAN. That's just two wires. Suddenly you have a whole bunch of extra digital, analog, temperature and a couple more VR inputs available. It works really well, I run a microsquirt IO box in my Cobra.

Also for those who like to tinker I found you can take a simple cheap Arduino and interface it with a CAN controller and make it talk to your MS3. You can feed it inputs and add gauges or additional info to your data logs or have additional outputs should you need. I made a video on that a long time ago demoing the basics of it working and I'm pretty sure I published sample code and specs for anyone to use.

Thanks
Malcolm
 

termcobra281

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This vid should give you a decent idea of what it takes to get the software going and first start up / idle tuning.......beyond that you don't want to F around unless you know what you're doing. Take it to a tuner that knows what they're doing and knows MS3. Get a good base tune.

The Pro version of the software also has a "self-tuning" feature that will adjust the tune in real time as you're driving the car if you're in closed loop and running an AFR gauge and trying to maintain a listed AFR ratio....this is a really cool feature that will get the VE (fuel) tables cleaned up for you. However, important to note that this feature does NOT self adjust timing tables...this is where a good tuner will do some work for you.



The 2003/2004 cobra PNP MS3 comes with a base tune already loaded so you basically just have to input your injector info, verify timing, and it should idle fairly decent.

The base tune is set up for Speed Density (for simplicity) so you can unplug your MAF for the initial start(s) - you'll run a boost/vac source straight to the MS3 so it can manage this. Beyond this its up to you if you want to continue running on Speed Density or switch over to MAF calculation which will require you to input a transfer curve specific to the MAF you're using....the PRO-M slot style works really well and comes with a 30pt transfer curve included...

thanks for all the pointers I will have to keep all this in mind.
 

01yellercobra

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@MalcolmV8

I'd have to check my settings and get back to you. I'm actually running one sensor on the driver side. I wanted to run dual, but had issues trying to get the plugs out the ECU and got frustrated. I'm using a Bosch wideband sensor for the 3V 4.6. For the knock in I made a few WOT with low timing and E85 to see where it usually was. It hangs around 2.5 even at part throttle. I figure most of it is the exhaust at that point.

I did some testing where I set the knock in below the threshold I was seeing and everytime crossed the threshold it pulled timing like I commanded. After that I had one instance where my tune went wonky and somehow my VE went lean at WOT. It was a short hit when I saw it, but looking at the log the knock sensor kicked in and pulled timing like it was supposed to. Is it perfect? Probably not. But I do feel better having it.

The car does spend most of its time on E85 now though. And the pump gas side of things is extremely conservative.
 

MalcolmV8

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@MalcolmV8

I'd have to check my settings and get back to you. I'm actually running one sensor on the driver side. I wanted to run dual, but had issues trying to get the plugs out the ECU and got frustrated. I'm using a Bosch wideband sensor for the 3V 4.6. For the knock in I made a few WOT with low timing and E85 to see where it usually was. It hangs around 2.5 even at part throttle. I figure most of it is the exhaust at that point.

I did some testing where I set the knock in below the threshold I was seeing and everytime crossed the threshold it pulled timing like I commanded. After that I had one instance where my tune went wonky and somehow my VE went lean at WOT. It was a short hit when I saw it, but looking at the log the knock sensor kicked in and pulled timing like it was supposed to. Is it perfect? Probably not. But I do feel better having it.

The car does spend most of its time on E85 now though. And the pump gas side of things is extremely conservative.
Oh ok. Doesn't the factory sensor have a stud sticking out and requires a boss to turn into? Normally in the valley of the block.
According to my notes (assuming I kept updated properly lol) I'm currently running Bosch sensor 0 261 231 188.
I too have it work the way you describe but not sure it's activating as it should. I'm pretty much dedicated E85 now days so it went on the back burner and I haven't messed with it much more. Someday I'll tinker with it more.

Malcolm
 

01yellercobra

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Oh ok. Doesn't the factory sensor have a stud sticking out and requires a boss to turn into? Normally in the valley of the block.
According to my notes (assuming I kept updated properly lol) I'm currently running Bosch sensor 0 261 231 188.
I too have it work the way you describe but not sure it's activating as it should. I'm pretty much dedicated E85 now days so it went on the back burner and I haven't messed with it much more. Someday I'll tinker with it more.

Malcolm
It has a hole for a bolt or stud to pass through. I have it mounted right behind the driver side motor mount. I ended up getting a dual sized stud from grainger to make it work. I think I have all the info on Mod Fords if you want me to check.

Another anecdote, I was tweaking AE and I had a lean spot in the transition from vacuum to boost. When I checked the logs it knocked and everything worked as it should. I could follow the line and see it add timing back. I have it really aggressive though. It pulls about 10 degrees pretty quick.
 

MalcolmV8

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It has a hole for a bolt or stud to pass through. I have it mounted right behind the driver side motor mount. I ended up getting a dual sized stud from grainger to make it work. I think I have all the info on Mod Fords if you want me to check.

Another anecdote, I was tweaking AE and I had a lean spot in the transition from vacuum to boost. When I checked the logs it knocked and everything worked as it should. I could follow the line and see it add timing back. I have it really aggressive though. It pulls about 10 degrees pretty quick.

Sounds like the exact same design sensors I'm running. I have one on each side of the block. It does sound like yours is responding pretty well. I'll PM you and we can compare configurations, perhaps I need to switch sensors again and try the same ones you're using. I have noticed quite a big difference in behavior each time I switched sensors. The current Bosch ones I'm on I did a lot of reading up on and they're supposed to be really good and cover a very broad frequency range but without the exact correct configurations for them that probably doesn't help. I'm sure nothing beats the actual Ford sensor made for this block.

Getting the thread back on track. For those wanting monitoring or gauge solutions I can share what I've tinkered with. My first major setup was an android tablet running Shadow Dash. Essentially I mounted where the radio had been.

IMG_9781.JPG


Looked pretty good really

IMG_9786.JPG


However I highly do not recommend this as a solution. I mean it kind of works but it's cumbersome and problematic. I often had connectivity issues where it wouldn't connect to the bluetooth connection which was horribly frustrating. I also ran into little issues like if it connected and then you cycled the key on the car it wouldn't reconnect till the tablet was power cycled too. I also spent a ton of time trying to make it a smooth automated "appliance" in the car. I wanted it to power on with the key on and then power off when I turned the key off. This required me "hacking" into the tablet and reflashing it with a custom firmware to gain root access so I could install an app capable of controlling the power.
I also had to build / install a custom power supply from 12 volts to 5 volt USB into the car to power that unit in the background. After all that I found if I hadn't driven the car for about a week + the battery in the tablet would die since it was in a "sleep" state rather than completely powered off. So I'd start the car and just get a dead battery symbol on the screen while it was charging to get enough power to turn on lol.
Data logs from it left a lot to be desired and I had a few issues there. I contacted EFI Analytics and they were great with support and helped with updates and making changes and also addressed some gauge customizations I discovered that would not save and remember your settings etc. But i the end it just didn't meet all my needs and I ditched it. Perhaps I was just asking too much of it. If you just powered up a tablet loose in the car and wanted to occasionally connect and see some gauges etc. it would work great for that.

Next I built a touch screen Raspberry PI display on which you load linux and a full install of Tuner Studio. This has been an awesome solution I highly recommend. It works amazing with the car and automation with key on/off is smooth as can be. I have it monitoring my headlights too and it dims or brightens the screen according to day or night driving etc. It datalogs the car automatically every time it's on and automatically uploads the logs to my computer at home via wifi anytime it senses the connection. So when ever I get home it just automatically uploads all the logs in the background. I go inside and automagically the data logs are just sitting on my computer there ready for review. Love it.

pi-display.jpg



Another great and super easy solution is the Perfect Tuning Gauge. They hookup with a simple two wire CAN connection to your MS3. I haven't run one long term personally but I've installed in cars for people and played around. I definitely liked it. There was even a way to connect to it from your phone so you could customize things with a nice interface on your phone and then save it. Here's a few random pics I took out of a video I had made a few years ago on it.

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Screen Shot 2021-11-12 at 9.43.33 AM.png


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Thanks
Malcolm
 

cajun cobra

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Since this is android based has anyone tried an android head unit such as the Atoto A6 or new S8. I have the A6 which I really like and it will connect to OBD via Bluetooth through the torque app. I was wondering if the same could be said using shadow dash and the MSPNP
 

01yellercobra

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I have a Note 20 5G and connect Shadow Dash through it. I don't normally use it to watch the gauges. I'll connect it if I want to take a log and don't have my laptop.

You can't make any tune adjustments through Shadow Dash though. It's just for logging. I think a couple people have had success in loading Tuner Studio onto a tablet.
 

GodStang

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I have it an love it. Buying Bosch 210s for $550 and never need an injector again and they run better than stock. Also E85 flex fuel sensor. I wish I had thought about Malcom when it came out as I would of bought from him. I use shadow dash on a $10 android tablet but plan to use one of the Atoto double din units. Also running dual canbus 14point7 Adv 3 Widebands so it self tuned per side. I like the stock look so did not want the small computer screen dash.
 

termcobra281

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I have it an love it. Buying Bosch 210s for $550 and never need an injector again and they run better than stock. Also E85 flex fuel sensor. I wish I had thought about Malcom when it came out as I would of bought from him. I use shadow dash on a $10 android tablet but plan to use one of the Atoto double din units. Also running dual canbus 14point7 Adv 3 Widebands so it self tuned per side. I like the stock look so did not want the small computer screen dash.
Thats a nice sounding set up. I like to use a flex fuel sensor with the 14point7 wideband or something like it. I was also looking at the digital dash efi to use for a dash. It haves alot of nice features for reading all the inputs, and logging. I also will be running bosch 210s as it seems like a smart move. I like the thought of Co2 seems some are running it and it works awesome. Anyone running water/meth with the ms3?
 

01yellercobra

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I have it an love it. Buying Bosch 210s for $550 and never need an injector again and they run better than stock. Also E85 flex fuel sensor. I wish I had thought about Malcom when it came out as I would of bought from him. I use shadow dash on a $10 android tablet but plan to use one of the Atoto double din units. Also running dual canbus 14point7 Adv 3 Widebands so it self tuned per side. I like the stock look so did not want the small computer screen dash.
Did you ever give that tablet back to your kid?
Thats a nice sounding set up. I like to use a flex fuel sensor with the 14point7 wideband or something like it. I was also looking at the digital dash efi to use for a dash. It haves alot of nice features for reading all the inputs, and logging. I also will be running bosch 210s as it seems like a smart move. I like the thought of Co2 seems some are running it and it works awesome. Anyone running water/meth with the ms3?
There was a thread on the MS forums about running meth and having it controlled by the MS3. They mentioned failsafes and such in case it failed and didn't spray.
 

termcobra281

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well... I hate to admit it but I ended up getting a holley terminator ecu. My turner said he like the holley much better for tuning fuel. I guess I have to go with what he likes and uses.
 

01yellercobra

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well... I hate to admit it but I ended up getting a holley terminator ecu. My turner said he like the holley much better for tuning fuel. I guess I have to go with what he likes and uses.
It's never a bad thing to go with what your tuner prefers. I don't think I've heard anyone say anything bad about the Holley system.
 

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