Local shop potentially damaged my differential...

Synyster06Gates

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Local shop potentially damaged my differential... UPDATE 5/25

How do I approach this?

A little back story - I picked up an 06 GT a few Saturdays ago and when I got under it before, I didn't notice any fluids leaking anywhere. The last week, I would notice a drip on the driveway every now and then towards the rear of the car and it smelled like gear oil. Sure enough, the pinion seal was leaking. Never heard any gear whine or any other noises from the rear of the car. I noticed this on Sunday.

Yesterday I took it into a local shop to have it done before work. They're real nice, I can basically watch them work on the car and they appeared to take care of everything, but then again I can't see all the details. An hour or so and $152.xx later, I'm out the door. I drive straight to work with the windows down since it's such a nice day. On the way home however, I had the radio down and the windows up. On deceleration I hear a howling gear whine. ****ing awesome. That tells me they either didnt torque the pinion nut enough or over torqued it and crushed the crush sleeve too far.

By the time I got home, they were closed to I sent an email. I haven't heard back yet and plan to call shortly, but how should I approach this without making it sound like "YOU ****ERS DAMAGED MY CAR FIX IT NOW"? I'd like to think it was an honest mistake, but they should have to fix it.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
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black4vcobra

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Apparently they forgot to count the rotations when removing the pinion nut. I'd just call them up and ask if they took the car for a test drive after the work. Then tell them that you are hearing a lot of gear noise since taking the car to them.

Unfortunately, I'm betting that they overtightened the nut and compressed the crush sleeve further. When I replaced the pinion seal on my car, I didn't torque the pinion nut down far enough and I got a metal on metal "scratching" noise since there wasn't enough friction for the bearings to spin properly. I tightened it down to either 140 or 170 lb-fts (can't remember which) and the noise went away. (although I do have a solid pinion spacer)
 

Synyster06Gates

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Apparently they forgot to count the rotations when removing the pinion nut. I'd just call them up and ask if they took the car for a test drive after the work. Then tell them that you are hearing a lot of gear noise since taking the car to them.

Unfortunately, I'm betting that they overtightened the nut and compressed the crush sleeve further. When I replaced the pinion seal on my car, I didn't torque the pinion nut down far enough and I got a metal on metal "scratching" noise since there wasn't enough friction for the bearings to spin properly. I tightened it down to either 140 or 170 lb-fts (can't remember which) and the noise went away. (although I do have a solid pinion spacer)

They did take it on a test drive. I saw them go, however it was just around the block and he also had the windows down.
 

ibleedblue65

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You need to find mechanic you trust and only do business with him/her. Build a relationship. Any shop worth a damn will stand behind their work. Just take it back to them and explain what you hear. If they won't make it right, you need to find a new mechanic. I don't like doing pinion seals without replacing the sleeve. Even if you mark the nut and pinion it is very easy to over torque them. It sounds like they over torqued it and the rear pinion bearing is howling.
 

Synyster06Gates

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Thread is a little premature, yes, because I don't know if they damaged it or not (which is why I said may have) but I wanted to know the best way to approach it. Before this, I had heard nothing but good things about these guys and they had the only price below $200 when I checked prices. I'll be giving them a call when I get a chance here at work. Been busy all day.

EDIT: Called them and when I mentioned the problem he at first didn't know what I was talking about so I explained and he said "uhh... well... I know you were low on fluid." I responded that I understand it was leaking, but it was making absolutely no noise before I brought it in so he said tomorrow I can bring it in and have them look it over. I'm interested to see how it goes. He didn't seem happy at all. I hope they don't try and **** me over. I noticed that my mileage on the receipt was incorrect (off by about 150 miles.) I do have the receipt for my inspection that was done at the same place immediately after with the right mileage though, so I guess it won't matter too much.
 
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SVTmystic290

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Im surprised they did a pinion seal knowing it was leaking and knowing you were low on fluid and then sent you on your way without topping it off or at least asking if you wanted a diff service/top off. That's their bad IMO.
 

Synyster06Gates

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Im surprised they did a pinion seal knowing it was leaking and knowing you were low on fluid and then sent you on your way without topping it off or at least asking if you wanted a diff service/top off. That's their bad IMO.

They did fill it up. On the receipt it shows limited slip additive and fluid.
 

SVTmystic290

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Stick your pinky in the diff cover hole and be sure its at the right level, just because its billed out doesnt mean they put it in. If it isnt that it def sounds like they over tightened the pinion nut. Good luck, I hope everything works out.
 

tistan

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You need 10-15 inch pounds of pinion preload. It takes around 200ftlbs of torque to crush the crush washer. I have to used a pretty good sized breaker bar to crush the washer in order to set the pinion preload. I would go back and ask them how the new nut was tightened. If they tell you with and impact gun, then take it some where else get it repaired and demand your money back from the first shop.
 

SVTmystic290

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You need 10-15 inch pounds of pinion preload. It takes around 200ftlbs of torque to crush the crush washer. I have to used a pretty good sized breaker bar to crush the washer in order to set the pinion preload. I would go back and ask them how the new nut was tightened. If they tell you with and impact gun, then take it some where else get it repaired and demand your money back from the first shop.

^This x100, you wouldnt believe how many times Ive seen someone tighten that nut with an impact gun and a week later its back in the shop getting a diff overhaul :nonono:
 

mrlrd1

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Setting up a rear diff (or just a seal replacement) can be done with impact gun, a breaker bar, or any other tool that gets the job done. The bearings don't care what tool you use as long as it's done right. I only use a breaker bar at home when a compressor isn't available. I do so many Ford driveline repairs at work I have dedicated impact guns for the task.

Why in the world would you take your car to the lowest bidder shop?
 

Synyster06Gates

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Okay so I have an update. I went in today. They are denying any and all possibility that they could have caused it.

They ride with me and I show them the howling. They can't deny that it's happen. Great, so far so good they acknowledge the problem. We go back and get the car on the lift.

The guy that did the seal says everything looks good there's no leak or anything. He says since he didn't test drive the car he has no way to know whether it was doing that before. And since there was a leak, it could have allowed metal shavings to fill the wear pattern in the gears hiding the issue and when they added fluid, it removed those metal particles creating the noise. (never heard that before.)

From this point, he goes on to tell me that if I want them to inspect it, I have to pay the labor to pull the diff cover and inspect, then if it's wear in the gears it's because of the leak (since it couldn't have happened in the last 3 days?) and if it's the bearing, it's also because of the leak. Essentially in no way will they take blame for anything. Plain and simple, my car went in without any noise and came back with gear noise. I don't see how it's possible for his situation to create a noise that is so similar to the sound of an overtorqued pinion nut.

What can I do from here?

Setting up a rear diff (or just a seal replacement) can be done with impact gun, a breaker bar, or any other tool that gets the job done. The bearings don't care what tool you use as long as it's done right. I only use a breaker bar at home when a compressor isn't available. I do so many Ford driveline repairs at work I have dedicated impact guns for the task.

Why in the world would you take your car to the lowest bidder shop?

Because they have a good reputation in the area. Not only that, but I've been there 3-4 times before for the tire side of their business and inspections and never had an issue. My company also produces their business cards and I have had a good relationship with the shops owner so far.
 
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SVTmystic290

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Obviously its not the BEST situation, but maybe you can calmly talk with the owner and express your concern that the noise WAS NOT there when you brought it in. Then go about it by trying to get him to split labor/parts with you. The problem with independents is ALOT (not all) tend to heir on the side that they did not create a problem. Thats why when you go to a dealership and pay top dollar if a problem comes about after a fix they will most likely take responsibility for it.

If they do not take ownership of this problem and dont want to help you out at all I would strongly suggest bringing it somewhere else, IMO a dealer would be the way to go...they are Ford certified for a reason. This kind of situation always sucks and you may end up eating some money on this one if the shop will not take responsibility. And if they dont own up, I would post the name of the shop and warn others about what kind of business they run.

Just my .02
 

Synyster06Gates

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Obviously its not the BEST situation, but maybe you can calmly talk with the owner and express your concern that the noise WAS NOT there when you brought it in. Then go about it by trying to get him to split labor/parts with you. The problem with independents is ALOT (not all) tend to heir on the side that they did not create a problem. Thats why when you go to a dealership and pay top dollar if a problem comes about after a fix they will most likely take responsibility for it.

If they do not take ownership of this problem and dont want to help you out at all I would strongly suggest bringing it somewhere else, IMO a dealer would be the way to go...they are Ford certified for a reason. This kind of situation always sucks and you may end up eating some money on this one if the shop will not take responsibility. And if they dont own up, I would post the name of the shop and warn others about what kind of business they run.

Just my .02

I may try that, but I won't mention going half until he continues to deny it. If they are 100% at fault, I shouldn't be required to pay half :(
 

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