My stock pumps are maxed right now and am weighing my options on what to change them with. I'm very heavily considering switching to e85 in the spring. I've been looking at the aem 320's, hear they're very easy to deal with in returnless systems and flow quite a bit. Would dual aem's and a bap be enough for say 725whp on e85?
limit of dual aem 320's w/ e85?
- Thread starter ctgreddy
- Start date
Yes they should do 700-800rwhp without the bap. You will want 10awg wiring to the pumps/hat and fpdm for returnless.
I would do at least 10awg they are a medium to high current pump and you want to keep amp pull and heat down. Especially when using a bap. And your power feed wire to the bap or fpdms should be 6-8awg. Wiring is often over looked but a very important part of a reliable and performance fuel upgrade.
I run a staggered dual pump setup, one aem-e as primary pump always on and one walbro 465 as secondary pump on a hobbs 10awg throughout with a 6awg power wire to the pump controller. I built a few gt500 returnless hats with these pumps and found 10awg is a good fit on the hat. Also delete the pprv if you haven't already.
I run a staggered dual pump setup, one aem-e as primary pump always on and one walbro 465 as secondary pump on a hobbs 10awg throughout with a 6awg power wire to the pump controller. I built a few gt500 returnless hats with these pumps and found 10awg is a good fit on the hat. Also delete the pprv if you haven't already.
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Gotcha, I was just going off of aem's website saying a 12awg will be plenty as long as it's less than 10' of wire. Do you think I should still need 10awg? If I dont need the bap I'm not going to use it so wont have to worry about that extra amperage. I'm at 19lbs/654whp now and will probably just upgrade boost to 21-22 with e85 so will probably only make around the 725whp level.
Do yourself a favor and ditch the oem hat so you can power the fpdm's correctly or go with a single modded piece, that's what I have. What kind of current do 2 aem's draw? Is that info available from them haven't seen it on their website?
I like the sound of this setup jeremyH.. So you activate the Hobbs switch for the 2nd pump when going WOT? Yeah the pprv inhibits fuel flow for sure
What difference does the hat make with whether I use a dual fpdm or single? I thought a modified fpdm wouldn't handle anything bigger than focus/gt pumps.
As far as the electrical data on the 320's it's in the install instructions that aem has on their website. Took me a while to find that but it's all in there.
You have to drill a hole in the top of the oem hat for the additional wires for the 2nd fpdm, issues with sealing and leakage can arise, a single modded fpdm from Derek (Black306) is plug and play with the factory wiring plug. I'm running twin aviators through mine (No BAP)with no issue BUT my duty cycle % is on the high side so that's why I'm asking about the current draw of 2 aem's...
In the end it all depends on pressure output of the pump/boost level, wire size any pprv, feed line or filter restrictions. Thicker wiring will drop amp pull and reduced heat helping flow. Keep in mind these pump can see a 20-25% reduction in flow when overheated just like a 255 pump. E85 helps keep the pumps a little cooler but adequate wiring is the key and best foundation to start from.
I have seen them pop a 30amp fuse, dual pump setup without upgraded wiring. Where as a 255 only draws 8-10amps. Your oem fpdm goes into thermal shutdown at 20amps and a 3v fpdm has a 30amp thermal shutdown rating. So will absolutely need two fpdms obviously. A simple wire upgrade through out the system will drop amp pull of the pumps and increase capacity. My aem-e 320 is running on a 10amp fuse. 6awg power and ground to the controller and 10awg power and ground from controller all the way to the pump. That's a significant drop in current pull 6amps+. These wiring upgrades also drop fuel pump duty cycle in a returnless setup 10-20%. I have seen a fuel line upgrade, stock line replaced with 8an line fore fuel filter and pprv delete on the hat drop duty cycle 26% on an e85 returnless setup as well so that's also part of the equation.
Here is the solution I can up with years ago when I first wanted to get upgraded wiring to the pumps on the a stock hat. This was for two dw300 pumps. I used nylon shoulder washers, regular washers and nuts and bolts to make new terminals through the top of the hat. This let me bypass the thin 14-16awg stock wiring on the plug. It worked great no leaking issues uses two nylon flat washers to sandwhich the nylon shoulder washer on to the hat tight and Teflon on the bolt threads. Unsed ring teminals and nuts to install the wiring on top and bottom. I was able to run both the pumps off the single stock 3v fpdm like this and worked great, but later wired in a second fpdm to dedicate one pump to each fpdm to make it more efficient.
Some pics.
Some pics.
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This is the line upgrade that yielded a 26% drop in duty cycle on an e85 setup and extended the fuel system.
First restriction in the pprv in the hat. All that fuel has to go through a 2-3mm ball valve seat inside.
The oem line is 5/16 id so we went with larger 3/8 id 8an line and a Fore filter.
And the final restriction is at the oem fuel rail connection it shrinks back down to a 4mm opening so replaced it with an aftermarket efi fitting or you can just stay 8an if using aftermarket rails.
First restriction in the pprv in the hat. All that fuel has to go through a 2-3mm ball valve seat inside.
The oem line is 5/16 id so we went with larger 3/8 id 8an line and a Fore filter.
And the final restriction is at the oem fuel rail connection it shrinks back down to a 4mm opening so replaced it with an aftermarket efi fitting or you can just stay 8an if using aftermarket rails.
These are all mods overlooked when upgrading a returnless setup and that aftermarket return setups upgrade from the get go.
Sounds like a plan!
Do you have results with your car or have seen results from someone else's car that these pumps can push 700-800RWHP? There was a guy over on Modular Fords who said he maxxed them out at 700RWHP through an Auto. Likewise there is another member here who is making mid-700's thru a 6spd/TVS on these successfully. E85 was used in both applications.
I'm interested in these, however I'll need pumps that can support 800RWHP. These are advertised in that range, I just haven't seen many/any people close or surpassing 800RWHO with these pumps since their still new.
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I did this setup but with 340 strikers. Dual FPDMs with a pair 12ga ran to stock drilled/hardware hat and pumps. Relay/10ga to battery. I'll still need to do -8 feed line/filter and 80lb injectors when I slap on the TVS and get tuned for E85.
Don't have a specific setup off the top of my head but comparing fuel systems is always a crap shoot. What it does on one car may be different on another. So many factors. The pumps are just the starting point. The pumps are capable of that. You have to build your setup to support them. That's why one guy makes 650 and the next guy make 750 etc.
Weight of the vehicle, max boost level, motor displacement and compression, type of power adder, tuned wot afr, base fuel pressure, injectors size, fuel line size, quality of flow through the fuel filter, fuel rail size, return or returnless, wiring size, fuel pump prefilter flow, charging system health(battery and alternator)
All this stuff will effect how far your fuel system will go and how much power it will support. If you run a lot of boost to get to the power you want that actually effects fuel flow quite a bit as fuel pressure goes up. So a lot of these things are give and take. If your lacking the supporting mods you will need more pump to compensate for the losses from your setup or add a bap etc.
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