Lets talk down force

[NOVA98Cobra]

Can someone please educate me (and other beginners) on the established ways to make these brick like cars get a little more down force and better aerodynamics. I personally only have two open track seasons under my belt now and under 100 hours or seat time so still a newbie, but I'm starting to go a lot faster than I ever have before and I'm begging to have a lot of trouble keeping the ass end planted. When building a front splitter or shopping for a race wing what are some things to keep in mind? Most the AIX and CMC cars I see have either a flat wing straight off the trunk or something huge above the roof. What are the benefits or both?

 

[racebronco2]

The ass end is planted because either your at the limit of your tires or you sre getting on the gas too much too soon. I have double the power you have and can keep the ass end sorta planted with street tires. It's all in your right foot. The secret is to drive to your car's ability. Don't over drive the car.

Wings and splitters should not be used until you can control your car in all situations. Once you can get the car do to what you want it to do all the time (within the car ability) then it's time for upgrades.

 

[NOVA98Cobra]

Ok I agree with you in regards to skill level and experience before upgrades. But in the interest of proving good information for someone with more experience than me who wants to find answers using the search feature instead of asking can we pack this thread with information and pictures instead of killing it at that. I promise to not make a splitter and buy a wing until more seat time so let me just theoretically ask: what improves mustang downforce?

 

[LilRoush]

Right off the bat, make sure your splitter and wing work to compliment each other. I've seen people just start slapping parts on and end up running slower lap times and fighting the car the whole way around.

In regards to the wing, I prefer adjustable plane wings - they allow for room to make it work for you. Again, that's just me. I've used duck tail type spoilers, fixed low level wings and higher adjustable AOA (angle of attack) wings. On the street, I have a basic Steeda race wing. On the track, I swap out trunk lids to a much taller wing that I can adjust. The taller wing is matched to a splitter that fills in under my nose all the way back to the lead edge of the front wheel well.

 

[wheelhopper]

Be sure you are not confusing the affects of oversteer as a sign for the need of a rear wing. As suspension parts are swapped out particularly the stock front sway bar on a Mustang for a performance type, such as a tubular Steeda bar, the factory dialed in understeer is going to be reduced and other changes can start to induce oversteer. Oversteer in a fast esses situation could feel like your ass end is flighty.

On a similiar note. Does anyone know for sure, or have info, on whether a Saleen style spoiler on the foxbody Mustang actually provides any downforce or is it mainly for looks?

 

[LilRoush]

Saleen spoiler on the fox hatch is a very nice design for helping out back (IMO).

 

[WPBcobra]

here is my 97 cobra with areo.
At HMS using the grand am course with this areo set up i gained 3 sec's over the event be for. The wing is adjustable to help with tuning it

 

[NOVA98Cobra]

here is my 97 cobra with areo.
At HMS using the grand am course with this areo set up i gained 3 sec's over the event be for. The wing is adjustable to help with tuning it

Thats a great looking set up. Could I please get more pics and info on how you designed that front splitter? That is the best design off a stock bumper I think I have ever seen.

On the note of dialing in a wing, can someone please describe in more detail what all is involved in that process as far as feel and angle.

Lets throw as much pics and technical info in here as possible so the topic doesn't come up to many times again and become another "which k-member thread"

 

[WPBcobra]

the part between the bumper and the splitter is from Shinoda
(link Shinoda Performance Vehicles) and the bottom part is made of Alumalite. It is removable has the 3 front struts and 2 mounts on the back side.
It is also all legal for AI rules

hear are 2 more pics

 

[ac427cobra]

Seeing that you're a relative noob op, I think Doug nails this one:

Be sure you are not confusing the affects of oversteer as a sign for the need of a rear wing. As suspension parts are swapped out particularly the stock front sway bar on a Mustang for a performance type, such as a tubular Steeda bar, the factory dialed in understeer is going to be reduced and other changes can start to induce oversteer. Oversteer in a fast esses situation could feel like your ass end is flighty.

On a similiar note. Does anyone know for sure, or have info, on whether a Saleen style spoiler on the foxbody Mustang actually provides any downforce or is it mainly for looks?

I learned this the hard way. Unless a wing is HIGH and FAR back on the deck lid, it's pretty much not doing anything except playing psychological games with you.

FWIW

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

 

[LilRoush]

Carmine, I do believe that is the first time I've seen up close shots of your new car's splitter set up. I had always assumed it was a one piece add on. Very cool.

I learned this the hard way. Unless a wing is HIGH and FAR back on the deck lid, it's pretty much not doing anything except playing psychological games with you.

Maybe we should dive into discussion of a wing (like posted) vs spoiler (Saleen or Tiger Racing style T1, Saleen fox whale tail etc...)and what each is really doing.

 

[NOVA98Cobra]

Maybe we should dive into discussion of a wing (like posted) vs spoiler (Saleen or Tiger Racing style T1, Saleen fox whale tail etc...)and what each is really doing.

Yes that's where I was trying to go with this thread. Sadly I have no knowledge to contribute

 

[racebronco2]

I learned this the hard way. Unless a wing is HIGH and FAR back on the deck lid, it's pretty much not doing anything except playing psychological games with you.

FWIW

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

Sometimes psychologically it does help when we have a mental block.

 

[WPBcobra]

Maybe we should dive into discussion of a wing (like posted) vs spoiler (Saleen or Tiger Racing style T1, Saleen fox whale tail etc...)and what each is really doing.

If i had the money i would of had a G stram wing or a Fulcrum wing. they are probable the best on the market.

 

[wheelhopper]

The reason I asked about any info/data on the Saleen wing is that I run TT with NASA. I had a foxbody years before I started OT and for looks added a Saleen wing. When I started doing TT I had to take 4 points for it, which is a lot. If it is not doing anything I'll get a stocker and use the 4 points elsewhere, or make a real wing and add a splitter to get the track value of my 4 points.

 

[ac427cobra]

After driving my Boss 302S on track, I really did not like how the back end of my 2000 Cobra R felt at speed with the OEM rear wing.

So I slapped a G-Stream wing on the back of that bad boy and in less than a month I will be able to comment on how well it worked.

 

[LilRoush]

I'm a big fan of the APR wing. More wing than I'll ever need though.

Here's my wing - same plane as the APR, but different mounting braces: Street trunk on the left, track trunk on the right.

 

[WPBcobra]

The reason I asked about any info/data on the Saleen wing is that I run TT with NASA. I had a foxbody years before I started OT and for looks added a Saleen wing. When I started doing TT I had to take 4 points for it, which is a lot. If it is not doing anything I'll get a stocker and use the 4 points elsewhere, or make a real wing and add a splitter to get the track value of my 4 points.

The saleen wing probably is not doing much on the road course. If i was you running TT take the wing off and use those 4 points for something better or get a wing that would be more affective.
What class in TT are you running

 

[wheelhopper]

I was running TTD. Currently I am 5 points into TTC and was going to make upgrades to max out in TTC. I could just remove the rear spoiler, put on a stocker and find a way to get one more point back and then I would be extremely competitive in TTD.

 

[WPBcobra]

I was running TTD. Currently I am 5 points into TTC and was going to make upgrades to max out in TTC. I could just remove the rear spoiler, put on a stocker and find a way to get one more point back and then I would be extremely competitive in TTD.

i would take the wing off and find a way to get that 1 more point back and go wreck people up in TTD. That was where i had my other 97 cobra at. Keep it simple and run the shit out of it.