Largest e85 pumps that can be run in returnless?

[31BCobra]

04 Cobra, dual FPDM and wire upgrades, fore hat.

I am on a tight schedule, I am going to be doing a return setup soon, but I need to get some more pump in returnless right away. So with that being said, "Go return" is planned, but not really an option right now.

What is the absolute biggest pumps that can be run in returnless?

 

[Brutal Metal]

The AEM 320's specifically made for E-85 can be run returnless.

 

[31BCobra]

The AEM 320's specifically made for E-85 can be run returnless.

Cool, thank you. I have 2 Walboro "improved" Ford GT pumps. But duty cycle is maxing out around 620whp. So I think one of them is going bad. What about the Division X 340s? Any pros or cons about those?

 

[Weather Man]

Dual DW200's and a BAP at 707 with ID1000's. Tuner felt I had room up to 800-850. You could also run DW300's.

 

[sonicblew]

make sure the fore hat fits them. i called justin at Fore innovations and i have a fore precision hat (old company) with dual gt pumps and he said the 320's wouldn't fit that older fore hat i have.

 

[JeremyH]

Cool, thank you. I have 2 Walboro "improved" Ford GT pumps. But duty cycle is maxing out around 620whp. So I think one of them is going bad. What about the Division X 340s? Any pros or cons about those?

Those pumps are good for around 700rwhp or so on gas so it makes sense that they are maxing at 620rwhp on e85, doubt there is any issues with the pumps.

Largest than run properly are the 340lph pumps, anything larger is difficult to modulate as pressure and flow changes too rapidly. From my experience best pumps out there that I have run and used are the aem-e 320 and DW300 pumps they are rated for e85 use as well.

The divisionx pumps are very unreliable and often don't flow as advertised but thats what you get with fuel pumps from china.

 

[c6zhombre]

2 supercar gt pumps here in a fore hat, 714 wheel returnless on corn. -8 feed line. Factory '04 rails. 80lb inj. Dual fpdm, kb bap. Sees about 84% duty cycle.

Something is either wrong with one of the pumps or your feed line needs to be upgraded. Only as good as the weakest link. Of course a proper return system would still be scenario "A", but you should be able to get more production than 620 corn out of those super car pumps

 

[31BCobra]

2 supercar gt pumps here in a fore hat, 714 wheel returnless on corn. -8 feed line. Factory '04 rails. 80lb inj. Dual fpdm, kb bap. Sees about 84% duty cycle.

Something is either wrong with one of the pumps or your feed line needs to be upgraded. Only as good as the weakest link. Of course a proper return system would still be scenario "A", but you should be able to get more production than 620 corn out of those super car pumps

Yea, I have the same thing. Except ID1000s and no BAP. The car made 672 at one point on about 90% duty cycle. But it has since fallen off. Definitely one of the pumps taking a dump. I would just throw a BAP on there, but that thing is damn near $500 with the dual FPDMs. Could do two larger pumps for about 2/3s the price of that.

 

[31BCobra]

Seems like the AEM 320s are a solid choice. If in the case that my old fore hat does not fit these, can I just shave the hat, much like people did with the stock Cobra hats to fit a larger pump?

 

[Brutal Metal]

the AEM 320's fit in the factory 03/04 hat so I don't know why the wouldn't in the old Fore? maybe the socks might hit the bottom of the gas tank? FYI if you choose these pumps they have different inlet positions available check their website..

 

[Onelfastlride]

Anyone know what inlet configuration for the AEM 320 pumps mimics the gt40 pumps?

 

[sonicblew]

the AEM 320's fit in the factory 03/04 hat so I don't know why the wouldn't in the old Fore? maybe the socks might hit the bottom of the gas tank? FYI if you choose these pumps they have different inlet positions available check their website..

Yep they do. I talked to Justin specifically about this in depth. He assured me that my older style fore hat would not work. I don't remember exactly why but i trust his knowledge. Im thinking it was a height issue.

as far as dual gt pumps on BAP. that will work on a 2.3 whipple like c6zhombre has. my buddy local to me also has the exact setup as that and he too is around 85-88% duty cycle. My setup is identical to both his and c6zhombre BUT i run a 2.9 and apparently that makes a bigger difference than I'd ever have guessed. i maxed out at 700rwhp and 18* of timing with 21-22psi.
my buddy and I also used the same tuner.

Depends on your blower too is what I'm saying

 

[sonicblew]

Yea, I have the same thing. Except ID1000s and no BAP. The car made 672 at one point on about 90% duty cycle. But it has since fallen off. Definitely one of the pumps taking a dump. I would just throw a BAP on there, but that thing is damn near $500 with the dual FPDMs. Could do two larger pumps for about 2/3s the price of that.

i did a single 40 amp BAP on a dual fpdm setup. you hook it up completely the same just send the power out cable into the same wire as you would if its a single fpdm. the key is to tie it into the harness before the wire splits and goes to the two separate fpdm then just check it with a multimeter. IIRC it should be 17v at each fpdm

 

[c6zhombre]

Yep they do. I talked to Justin specifically about this in depth. He assured me that my older style fore hat would not work. I don't remember exactly why but i trust his knowledge. Im thinking it was a height issue.

as far as dual gt pumps on BAP. that will work on a 2.3 whipple like c6zhombre has. my buddy local to me also has the exact setup as that and he too is around 85-88% duty cycle. My setup is identical to both his and c6zhombre BUT i run a 2.9 and apparently that makes a bigger difference than I'd ever have guessed. i maxed out at 700rwhp and 18* of timing with 21-22psi.
my buddy and I also used the same tuner.

Depends on your blower too is what I'm saying

Wow, interesting. Those 2.9s are beasts! I'm impressed you hit 700 with only 18* timing and 21 psi. Bet that 2.9 would really hunker down 25psi plus and 20 plus timing!

 

[R.D.P.]

2 supercar gt pumps here in a fore hat, 714 wheel returnless on corn. -8 feed line. Factory '04 rails. 80lb inj. Dual fpdm, kb bap. Sees about 84% duty cycle.

Something is either wrong with one of the pumps or your feed line needs to be upgraded. Only as good as the weakest link. Of course a proper return system would still be scenario "A", but you should be able to get more production than 620 corn out of those super car pumps

I'm really surprised to hear your not running into problems with the stock rails flowing enough. I guess it's the increased base pressure. I know it's working for you, but I would be scared to try it.

 

[spray'n mach 1]

Cool, thank you. I have 2 Walboro "improved" Ford GT pumps. But duty cycle is maxing out around 620whp. So I think one of them is going bad. What about the Division X 340s? Any pros or cons about those?

do not run div x pumps, they had a bad batch now my car is down dealing with that crap. I'm going to run the new aeromotive e85 friendly pumps, as soon as they get here.

 

[sonicblew]

Wow, interesting. Those 2.9s are beasts! I'm impressed you hit 700 with only 18* timing and 21 psi. Bet that 2.9 would really hunker down 25psi plus and 20 plus timing!

Yes, I was too! 700/645 sae tuned by Tim Barth. He said the 2.9 pushes a good deal more air so that's why.
Too bad because I had another 2# of boost with another pulley and 3-4* of timing to go. He said 750+ would've been very doable. I do have Mac LT though so my 21 is more like 22.5-23#.

If someone does try the aem or has already and they work in a older fore hat please post about that. I'd love to do that. My returnless has been great so far! If I can swap pumps that's be great.

do not run div x pumps, they had a bad batch now my car is down dealing with that crap. I'm going to run the new aeromotive e85 friendly pumps, as soon as they get here.

Yep, exact same problem my buddy had!

 

[c6zhombre]

I'm really surprised to hear your not running into problems with the stock rails flowing enough. I guess it's the increased base pressure. I know it's working for you, but I would be scared to try it.

This is 04sleepers "old" car. It's been on this exact setup since 2009! Lol. I think he's tuned many 03/04 cobras to this level with the factory rails and I've never personally heard of a car he's had input/tuning on having any issues whatsoever.

But I do love the look of those fore rails. Drool. Maybe one day if I swap the blower I'll add those (plus a return setup).

 

[31BCobra]

Thanks for all the input guys. I have decided to just do a Fore Level 1 (Budget) return system + rails + 465s in my garage for the time being. I don't have the cash to do the level 2 yet, but as it was explained to me, it is fairly easy to build into it. It just seemed more of a hassle to try and keep the returnless system, rather than just get working on return.

Anyone have any links to writeups on a return system install? I am pretty mechanically inclined, but I have never screwed around with the fuel system. Would be nice to kinda have a guide.

 

[sonicblew]

Thanks for all the input guys. I have decided to just do a Fore Level 1 (Budget) return system + rails + 465s in my garage for the time being. I don't have the cash to do the level 2 yet, but as it was explained to me, it is fairly easy to build into it. It just seemed more of a hassle to try and keep the returnless system, rather than just get working on return.

Anyone have any links to writeups on a return system install? I am pretty mechanically inclined, but I have never screwed around with the fuel system. Would be nice to kinda have a guide.

Good call man, thats what i would do in your shoes. my returnless was so far along already or would've done the same.

sorry i can't help out on install links