Killer chiller

[Soap]

Josh, what exactly do you want to know? Do you have something specific or just want to know if it works? I can answer whatever you want.

To get to the your point....yes J2 mod works and you can not flow the fluid through the intercooler fast enough. The faster the flow the better the heat transfer. I'm at an honest 16GPM at my return line and if I could figure out a way to make that 50GPM I would do it. I have done everything I can (within reason) to optimize fluid flow. My tank looks like a whirlpool when I turn my pump on.

The benefit of the J2 mod over just having more volume with a trunk tank alone can be seen in the datalogs. I have been racing and logging my car for a long time with a trunk mounted tank (and ice at the track) and I always saw my IAT2's raise like 50-60* during a single pass (80*-130+), now my temps rise like 20* with no ice and even less with ice. Depending on how hard you are spinning your blower, some people actually see a drop in temps across a dyno pull or pass at the track. Ask Allen about his old 2.8H KB setup, his temps used to drop on a pass.......so like start at 100* and end at 95*. It's hard to believe but it's true.

Justins setup has been proven on a lot of cars, I was skeptical at first but I'm very happy I did it. You just have to get past the mentality that you are flowing the fluid too fast.

EDIT........just read your post above this. I agree our IC core is small and the airflow path is terrible as the intake air has to make an 'S' to even get into the combustion chamber. However the size of the lower intake dictates that and there is nothing we can cost effectively do about it.

--Joe

 

[GodStang]

I went back and read my talks with Allen. When he wakes up in his wonderful winter wonderland I will ask him my questions.

Josh, what exactly do you want to know? Do you have something specific or just want to know if it works? I can answer whatever you want.

To get to the your point....yes J2 mod works and you can not flow the fluid through the intercooler fast enough. The faster the flow the better the heat transfer. I'm at an honest 16GPM at my return line and if I could figure out a way to make that 50GPM I would do it. I have done everything I can (within reason) to optimize fluid flow. My tank looks like a sauna when I turn my pump on.

The benefit of the J2 mod over just having more volume with a trunk tank alone can be seen in the datalogs. I have been racing and logging my car for a long time with a trunk mounted tank (and ice at the track) and I always saw my IAT2's raise like 50-60* during a single pass (80*-130+), now my temps rise like 20* with no ice and even less with ice. Depending on how hard you are spinning your blower, some people actually see a drop in temps across a dyno pull or pass at the track. Ask Allen about his old 2.8H KB setup, his temps used to drop on a pass.......so like start at 100* and end at 95*. It's hard to believe but it's true.

Justins setup has been proven on a lot of cars, I was skeptical at first but I'm very happy I did it. You just have to get past the mentality that you are flowing the fluid too fast.

EDIT........just read your post above this. I agree our IC core is small and the airflow path is terrible as the intake air has to make an 'S' to even get into the combustion chamber. However the size of the lower intake dictates that and there is nothing we can cost effectively do about it.

--Joe

 

[01yellercobra]

Yes I have talked with Department of Boost and read a lot of their stuff and it's good stuff he just ignores major problems with our design. Our under blower heat exchanger has 3 major problems. To maximize cooling we need to address all three and everyone only wants to address one of them and it's the least problem but easiest to fix. I understand JFab addresses one of them and I was not bashing it and I understand that faster moving water does help in cooling if the system is designed for it but the point I was trying to ask/get across was the few people that have J2fab also are adding a 5-7 gallon tank that has a Rule 2000 pump or other brand pump. So the question is are these huge gains from the inlet mod or are they the fact that you now have 10x-14x the fluid capacity with a big tank pump or both? Is the J2Fab worth the $700 over just a trunk tank and if you have the money I say for sure do it. If you have just $700 do you get a complete trunk kit or do you do J2Fab.

I am not trying to argue and not trying to be a jerk but this is the item (under blower heat exchanger) that I think is keeping our cars from having more 1000rwhp lower compression twin screw builds and no one ever talks about it for our cars. (They have proven this in the GT500 not yet in our cars).

As far as the Veyron it's complete system is designed to flow that and was adequately built for that car. Unfortunately when our car was designed near 20 years ago I don't think they planned for E85 builds with 25psi and 2.6L+ blowers.

I'm not taking you as being argumentative or being a jerk. I get what you're asking as far as comparing the mods. DOB said he was considering a lower set up for us, but there just isn't enough of a market to make it worth the investment. Which I understand.

To be honest I'd rather not run an extra tank. I like to keep things somewhat stock. But at the same time I want things more reliable as I do plan on a bigger blower in the future.

I'm sure the original designers never expected the cars to be where they are now.

 

[Soap]

I went back and read my talks with Allen. When he wakes up in his wonderful winter wonderland I will ask him my questions.

He's probably up, they are like 5 hours behind us, that dude never sleeps!!

--Joe

 

[GodStang]

He's probably up, they are like 5 hours behind us, that dude never sleeps!!

--Joe

Ya he sent me a message after I went to bed last night about my intake setup and then I responded at like 6 am est and have not heard back. He is always on at weird times.

 

[Timmy.b]

Anybody on this thread interested in purchasing a used killer chiller for 03/04 termi?

 

[keith89]

So you didn't read where i posted that j2fab trunk tanks with big pumps report iat2 temp drops under wot?

IAT2's should drop at WOT regardless of what setup you run. I believe in the j2fab intercooler mod but find their claims of 20* to 50* drop at wot a bit disingenuous. A 20ish degree drop at wot is normal with the stock setup since you clear out the hot stagnant engine bay air at wot. They should really show the difference in IAT2 drop at wot before and after the mod. I have no doubt that their mod works better but they need to work on the marketing and data presentation.

That said, I have had a killer chiller for nearly 10 years now. I had a gen 1 core that cracked after a year because it got too cold. It was replaced with a gen 2 core that has been going strong ever since. I have a 5gallon trunk tank with 3/4" insulated lines so it doesn't drip water. The trunk tank gets condensation since it gets down to 40*F(it takes a little longer to get down to that temp due to system capacity). I removed the oem intercooler hard lines since they are tiny and absorb engine bay heat.

The final restrictions were my front mount heat exchanger and the oem intercooler inlet ports. I had 3/4" barbs welded to my heat exchanger and installed the cobra engineering intercooler adapter(j2fab mod wasn't available back then). The cobra engineering intercooler adapter helps with potential boost leak past the o-rings(which I experienced) and has larger ports into the intercooler(not as large as j2fab but defintely larger than stock at 5/8" vs 1/2"). Each step I have taken has helped noticably.

To summarize, in my experience the killer chiller, trunk mounted tank and j2fab mod would be the best setup. The killer chiller can keep the fluid cold, trunk mounted tank increases cold fluid capacity and the j2fab mod increases flow through the entire system which helps with heat transfer. The thing people need to remember is the killer chiller can be made drip free if you take the time to properly insulate everything and it needs to be running for 5-10 min depending on your coolant tank capacity to get the temps super low(which people normally don't do when drag racing). That said, I used it for open track which was great because i wasn't at WOT all the time where the ac compressor turns off.

If i were to do it again, I would probably stick with the cobra engineering intercooler adapter because it is cheaper and eliminates the boost leak potential with the oem style tube and o-ring setup. Also, less downtime with the cobra engineering adapter as I wouldn't need to have my intercooler machined. That said, the j2fab is definitely a better performer due to the flow capacity.

 

[Four Door SVT]

45* coolant after the inner cooler indicates that heat exchanger isn’t working or the flow rate is too fast , even though the killer chiller can provide 36* supply temperature, and a 10* change isn’t bad, I’d like to put a thermostat inline but the killer chiller might freeze up if the water moves much slower


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stangra]

45* coolant after the inner cooler indicates that heat exchanger isn’t working or the flow rate is too fast , even though the killer chiller can provide 36* supply temperature, and a 10* change isn’t bad, I’d like to put a thermostat inline but the killer chiller might freeze up if the water moves much slower


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

???

I keep hearing people talking about flow rates being too fast, let's dispel this as an urban myth once and for all. More flow is NOT a bad thing. The temp of the coolant is not what's important, the Inlet Air Temp is. Faster flowing coolant will effectively remove more heat from the inlet air in a given amount of time.

Heat transfer efficiency vs. coolant mass flow rate - Heat Transfer & Thermodynamics engineering - Eng-Tips

Department of Boost :: Cooling/Intercoolers

 

[Four Door SVT]

I didn’t reply just for you to go looking to myth busters but according to all equations the temperature difference is the most important, of course the intake air temperature is the important factor and the only control over that is your foot.

On the other end where the water gets cold, do you think that the faster it flows there the colder it gets too?

Its really not that important to me (e85) but I’m sure if the water was colder it would remove more heat and positively slowing it down at the killer chiller would make it slushy so that’s where an additive comes into play to lower it’s freezing point as well as increasing the fluids heat transfer abilities.

Being that the water temperature from the inner heat exchanger is at 45* I’ve thought about using it to cool the fuel inlet, before going back to the chiller and installing inlet and outlet temperature gauges for monitoring.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stangra]

On the other end where the water gets cold, do you think that the faster it flows there the colder it gets too?

Again: Though always a nice thing to have, our end goal isn't to have colder coolant, it's to have colder IAT. So, while the coolant may not get as cold, because it's moving faster through the intercooler it will still transfer more heat.
Anything you can do to remove more BTUs will help, slowing coolant flow will be counterproductive

 

[Stangra]

Being that the water temperature from the inner heat exchanger is at 45* I’ve thought about using it to cool the fuel inlet, before going back to the chiller and installing inlet and outlet temperature gauges for monitoring

Does your ECU care what the fuel temp is?

 

[94 Cobra R]

I’ve NEVER heard of a stock setup with IAT2’s getting cooler under WOT. If that were the case, then we wouldn’t be going through all of this to make our intercooling system more efficient.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[*Jay*]

I’ve NEVER heard of a stock setup with IAT2’s getting cooler under WOT. If that were the case, then we wouldn’t be going through all of this to make our intercooling system more efficient.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

There is a "brief" instance with a heatsoaked engine and IAT2 sensor that your IAT2 will drop when opening the throttle up. One of my many projects is finding a way to keep that sensor from heat soaking on my ported eaton. For instance on VMPs its done with blower milling to put the sensor in deeper, just gotta make the time.

 

[keith89]

There is a "brief" instance with a heatsoaked engine and IAT2 sensor that your IAT2 will drop when opening the throttle up. One of my many projects is finding a way to keep that sensor from heat soaking on my ported eaton. For instance on VMPs its done with blower milling to put the sensor in deeper, just gotta make the time.

This was my point. The IAT2's will drop initially but will increase as the pull continues. I will stress, I am not knocking the j2fab mod as I am sure it works. They just need to work on their marketing and provide actual measured results. They just state iat2's drop "20-50*". Is that initially? through the run at the end of the run vs a stock vehicle? etc. It is not specified.

 

[94 Cobra R]

Malcolm provided results, didn't he?

 

[Andrew03SVT]

Yes I have talked with Department of Boost and read a lot of their stuff and it's good stuff he just ignores major problems with our design. Our under blower heat exchanger has 3 major problems. To maximize cooling we need to address all three and everyone only wants to address one of them and it's the least problem but easiest to fix. I understand JFab addresses one of them and I was not bashing it and I understand that faster moving water does help in cooling if the system is designed for it but the point I was trying to ask/get across was the few people that have J2fab also are adding a 5-7 gallon tank that has a Rule 2000 pump or other brand pump. So the question is are these huge gains from the inlet mod or are they the fact that you now have 10x-14x the fluid capacity with a big tank pump or both? Is the J2Fab worth the $700 over just a trunk tank and if you have the money I say for sure do it. If you have just $700 do you get a complete trunk kit or do you do J2Fab.

I am not trying to argue and not trying to be a jerk but this is the item (under blower heat exchanger) that I think is keeping our cars from having more 1000rwhp lower compression twin screw builds and no one ever talks about it for our cars. (They have proven this in the GT500 not yet in our cars).

As far as the Veyron it's complete system is designed to flow that and was adequately built for that car. Unfortunately when our car was designed near 20 years ago I don't think they planned for E85 builds with 25psi and 2.6L+ blowers.

But I like 25+ pounds of boost


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

 

[GodStang]

But I like 25+ pounds of boost


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app

I hear ya pulleyed for 30+ here...