Anyone know anything about these,Iam looking at a set of four, I believe they are made by goodridge and KB covers them in plastic
Kenny brown brake lines
- Thread starter slalomdude
- Start date
Brought home a set today. I couldn't find anything on line. My local speed merchant got them for me, $165 + tax. They are labeled 600-70225DOT. Kenny Brown 99 Mustang & Cobra. They have sold quite a few and didn't seem to have had any problems. Does this help any?
Let me know how the install goes, any tips etc.What pads and rotors are you using. Will be interesting to see if you notice any improvement
Thanks
Thanks
Are they stainless?
slalomdude: I had them installed at a local shop. The pedal feel is more firm giving the brakes a better feel. Good Luck!
Couldn't swear they are stainless but I asked for braided SS when ordering. They have a semitransparent black plastic protective coating. Very low key, not what you want if your looking for flash value.
I pulled a couple of wheels tonight to be sure I had all the tools. They just don't look right. Replacement parts often are different, but I sure thought I could figure out a tube with one connection at each end. I couldn't figure these out. Some parts are missing or I am missing something. There were no instructions in the package. They may have been opened or a return. I'll report after I check with the shop tomorrow.
I pulled a couple of wheels tonight to be sure I had all the tools. They just don't look right. Replacement parts often are different, but I sure thought I could figure out a tube with one connection at each end. I couldn't figure these out. Some parts are missing or I am missing something. There were no instructions in the package. They may have been opened or a return. I'll report after I check with the shop tomorrow.
Correct.
I have used them for years, on two different cars. Much firmer pedal feel, easier to modulate brakes.
Steve
This is from Corvette Forum. Forgive me! It is long but the best explaination of SS Brakelines I have heard.
What Are "DOT-approved" SS Lines?
[AWN] A few people have asked me to explain the difference between "DOT-approved" and non-approved stainless-steel brake lines. This explanation is pretty long, but I think it'll explain everything so I won't ever have to post another message on the subject... I'll just refer anyone who asks to the Porschelist searchable archives.
First, a quick explanation of what stainless-steel brake lines ARE:
The brake lines we're talking about are the flexible ones that connect between the hard lines (i.e., the inflexible tubing) in the car and the brake calipers on the wheels.
They've traditionally been made from rubber tubing, with steel or aluminum connectors crimped onto their ends. Nearly all passenger cars are shipped with rubber brake lines, and they hardly ever fail.
"Stainless-steel" lines are made of Teflon tubing, not rubber. Teflon has a number of advantages over rubber; the chief ones are that it doesn't expand under pressure and it doesn't deteriorate with age. It also resists high temperatures and is chemically inert, so it's compatible with all brake fluids.
However, Teflon is pretty fragile, so it has to be protected from physical damage (chafing, flying rocks, etc.). Although some manufacturers armor their Teflon hoses with Kevlar, most protect the Teflon with an external sheath of braided stainless-steel wire... So that's why armored Teflon hose is usually called "stainless-steel hose". There's no such thing as a stainless-steel brake line that's "not lined with any material"; ALL stainless-steel brake lines are really Teflon lines with a protective stainless-steel-braid cover.
The ends of the hoses have to be securely attached to the brake calipers and the hard lines, so each hose is terminated by threaded hose-ends.
Those hose-end fittings can be attached to the hoses a couple of ways.
The cheap way is to crimp or swage them onto the hoses, like the fittings on rubber hoses. The more-expensive way is to use a two-piece replaceable hose end that captures a portion of the hose between an inner nipple and a concentric outer socket. These hose-ends (often referred to generically as "Aeroquip fittings" because they were invented by the Aeroquip Corporation) are used EVERYWHERE on aircraft and race cars.
Ok... So what's required for a stainless-steel brake line to be DOT-approved?
First, I should point out that there may be lines available that meet all the DOT specs, but are non-approved only because they haven't been submitted to the DOT for approval.
Manufacturers can't legally say that their lines are approved -- even if they KNOW that the lines meet all the DOT specifications -- without actually submittimg them to the DOT.
For that reason, stainless-steel brake lines can fall into three categories:
"DOT approved" - These lines have been submitted to and approved by the US Department of Transportation.
"non-approved" - These lines don't have a DOT approval, either because they don't meet the specs or simply because they haven't been submitted for testing.
"non-conforming" - These lines are non-approved (and non-approvable) because they fail to meet the DOT specs.
Ok...
The safety standard that brake hoses must meet is called Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 106; if you have a copy of the Code of Federal Regulations handy, it's in Title 49, Volume 5, Subpart B, Section 571.106.
The section that applies to hydraulic hoses is about six pages long, and it covers everything from labeling requirements to pressure and temperature testing.
One important thing to note -- this'll come up later when I explain why the "best" hose assemblies can't be DOT approved -- is that each of the requirements in the Standard carries the same weight; if a hose fails to meet ANY requirement, it won't be approved.
Hypothetically, therefore, a hose which met all the performance specs but was labeled in lowercase letters (the Standard requires block capitals) would fail to be approved.
Also, some of the features required by the Standard provide a certain amount of "idiot-proofing", but at the expense of absolute maximum strength or safety... It's the same sort of mandated mediocrity that forced Ferrari to replace the stock 5-point safety harnesses in US-spec F40s with those ridiculous motorized-mouse single shoulder belts.
Anyway...
Most of the "performance" specs in the Standard (i.e., burst strength, compatibility with brake fluids, tensile strength, expansion under pressure, etc.) are easily met by all halfway-decent hydraulic brake hoses, but there are a couple of tests and requirements that are particularly difficult for stainless-steel hoses to meet.
Those requirements are:
1. The manner in which the fittings must be attached to the hose.
FMVSS 106 specifies that "Each hydraulic brake hose assembly shall have PERMANENTLY ATTACHED brake hose end fittings which are attached by deformation of the fitting about the hose BY CRIMPING OR SWAGING." [Emphasis added]
The idea is that, since crimped-on fittings can't be loosened, a stupid end-user won't be able to screw with and weaken them.
This is a good thing from a product-liability point of view, I guess... But it means that any hose assembly which uses the very best fittings available -- like the nipple-and-cutter Aeroquip Super Gem or Earl's Speed Seal -- is non-conforming and CAN'T be DOT-approved.
2. The "whip-resistance" test.
This test involves mounting the hose on a flexing machine, pressurizing it to 235 psi, then running it at 800 RPM for 35 hours.
When steel-armored hoses were run through that test, it was found that the hoses tended to bend right at the junction between the hose and the hose-ends. After a while, the stainless-steel braid would start to tear, and the broken wires would cut into the inner Teflon liner, causing it to fail.
One brake-hose manufacturer fought to modify the whip test, claiming that their stainless-steel hose could easily comply with the test if only a supplemental support were used during testing to move the flexing-point away from the hose-ends.
The NHTSA ruled on the issue in August, 1996, deciding to allow manufacturers to use the supplemental support... But only on the condition that the same support was used when the hoses were installed on a real car.
FMVSS 106 was modified to include the use of the support, and the new rules went into effect in October, 1996.
"DOT-approved" stainless-steel brake hoses went on sale immediately thereafter.
So... Now that you know the whole story, you can make an informed decision as to whether you want to put these things on your street-driven car.
If you decide to install them, you need to be aware of a few things:
When you install them, you must make SURE that they can't kink, twist, or stretch under any combination of wheel droop, bump, or (for the front wheels) steer.
The stainless-steel outer braid will cut through anything against which it rubs, so you have to make sure that the lines don't rub back and forth over anything important.
Stainless steel lines have been known to fail when dirt gets between the outer braid and the Teflon lining... As the braid moves back and forth, the dirt abrades the Teflon and can make it rupture. If you look at stainless-steel lines on motorcycles, you'll see that many of them are encased in plastic tubing, apparently in an effort to eliminate this problem. The tubing also helps considerably with the abrasion issue mentioned above.
What Are "DOT-approved" SS Lines?
[AWN] A few people have asked me to explain the difference between "DOT-approved" and non-approved stainless-steel brake lines. This explanation is pretty long, but I think it'll explain everything so I won't ever have to post another message on the subject... I'll just refer anyone who asks to the Porschelist searchable archives.
First, a quick explanation of what stainless-steel brake lines ARE:
The brake lines we're talking about are the flexible ones that connect between the hard lines (i.e., the inflexible tubing) in the car and the brake calipers on the wheels.
They've traditionally been made from rubber tubing, with steel or aluminum connectors crimped onto their ends. Nearly all passenger cars are shipped with rubber brake lines, and they hardly ever fail.
"Stainless-steel" lines are made of Teflon tubing, not rubber. Teflon has a number of advantages over rubber; the chief ones are that it doesn't expand under pressure and it doesn't deteriorate with age. It also resists high temperatures and is chemically inert, so it's compatible with all brake fluids.
However, Teflon is pretty fragile, so it has to be protected from physical damage (chafing, flying rocks, etc.). Although some manufacturers armor their Teflon hoses with Kevlar, most protect the Teflon with an external sheath of braided stainless-steel wire... So that's why armored Teflon hose is usually called "stainless-steel hose". There's no such thing as a stainless-steel brake line that's "not lined with any material"; ALL stainless-steel brake lines are really Teflon lines with a protective stainless-steel-braid cover.
The ends of the hoses have to be securely attached to the brake calipers and the hard lines, so each hose is terminated by threaded hose-ends.
Those hose-end fittings can be attached to the hoses a couple of ways.
The cheap way is to crimp or swage them onto the hoses, like the fittings on rubber hoses. The more-expensive way is to use a two-piece replaceable hose end that captures a portion of the hose between an inner nipple and a concentric outer socket. These hose-ends (often referred to generically as "Aeroquip fittings" because they were invented by the Aeroquip Corporation) are used EVERYWHERE on aircraft and race cars.
Ok... So what's required for a stainless-steel brake line to be DOT-approved?
First, I should point out that there may be lines available that meet all the DOT specs, but are non-approved only because they haven't been submitted to the DOT for approval.
Manufacturers can't legally say that their lines are approved -- even if they KNOW that the lines meet all the DOT specifications -- without actually submittimg them to the DOT.
For that reason, stainless-steel brake lines can fall into three categories:
"DOT approved" - These lines have been submitted to and approved by the US Department of Transportation.
"non-approved" - These lines don't have a DOT approval, either because they don't meet the specs or simply because they haven't been submitted for testing.
"non-conforming" - These lines are non-approved (and non-approvable) because they fail to meet the DOT specs.
Ok...
The safety standard that brake hoses must meet is called Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 106; if you have a copy of the Code of Federal Regulations handy, it's in Title 49, Volume 5, Subpart B, Section 571.106.
The section that applies to hydraulic hoses is about six pages long, and it covers everything from labeling requirements to pressure and temperature testing.
One important thing to note -- this'll come up later when I explain why the "best" hose assemblies can't be DOT approved -- is that each of the requirements in the Standard carries the same weight; if a hose fails to meet ANY requirement, it won't be approved.
Hypothetically, therefore, a hose which met all the performance specs but was labeled in lowercase letters (the Standard requires block capitals) would fail to be approved.
Also, some of the features required by the Standard provide a certain amount of "idiot-proofing", but at the expense of absolute maximum strength or safety... It's the same sort of mandated mediocrity that forced Ferrari to replace the stock 5-point safety harnesses in US-spec F40s with those ridiculous motorized-mouse single shoulder belts.
Anyway...
Most of the "performance" specs in the Standard (i.e., burst strength, compatibility with brake fluids, tensile strength, expansion under pressure, etc.) are easily met by all halfway-decent hydraulic brake hoses, but there are a couple of tests and requirements that are particularly difficult for stainless-steel hoses to meet.
Those requirements are:
1. The manner in which the fittings must be attached to the hose.
FMVSS 106 specifies that "Each hydraulic brake hose assembly shall have PERMANENTLY ATTACHED brake hose end fittings which are attached by deformation of the fitting about the hose BY CRIMPING OR SWAGING." [Emphasis added]
The idea is that, since crimped-on fittings can't be loosened, a stupid end-user won't be able to screw with and weaken them.
This is a good thing from a product-liability point of view, I guess... But it means that any hose assembly which uses the very best fittings available -- like the nipple-and-cutter Aeroquip Super Gem or Earl's Speed Seal -- is non-conforming and CAN'T be DOT-approved.
2. The "whip-resistance" test.
This test involves mounting the hose on a flexing machine, pressurizing it to 235 psi, then running it at 800 RPM for 35 hours.
When steel-armored hoses were run through that test, it was found that the hoses tended to bend right at the junction between the hose and the hose-ends. After a while, the stainless-steel braid would start to tear, and the broken wires would cut into the inner Teflon liner, causing it to fail.
One brake-hose manufacturer fought to modify the whip test, claiming that their stainless-steel hose could easily comply with the test if only a supplemental support were used during testing to move the flexing-point away from the hose-ends.
The NHTSA ruled on the issue in August, 1996, deciding to allow manufacturers to use the supplemental support... But only on the condition that the same support was used when the hoses were installed on a real car.
FMVSS 106 was modified to include the use of the support, and the new rules went into effect in October, 1996.
"DOT-approved" stainless-steel brake hoses went on sale immediately thereafter.
So... Now that you know the whole story, you can make an informed decision as to whether you want to put these things on your street-driven car.
If you decide to install them, you need to be aware of a few things:
When you install them, you must make SURE that they can't kink, twist, or stretch under any combination of wheel droop, bump, or (for the front wheels) steer.
The stainless-steel outer braid will cut through anything against which it rubs, so you have to make sure that the lines don't rub back and forth over anything important.
Stainless steel lines have been known to fail when dirt gets between the outer braid and the Teflon lining... As the braid moves back and forth, the dirt abrades the Teflon and can make it rupture. If you look at stainless-steel lines on motorcycles, you'll see that many of them are encased in plastic tubing, apparently in an effort to eliminate this problem. The tubing also helps considerably with the abrasion issue mentioned above.
Good reading, I think I will definetly go with the KB as they have the protective outer shield. Not sure if to do just front or all around.
Make sure to bleed the master cylinder if you have a soft pedal after the install.
I just installed front SS lines from Russel. Much easier install than I expected. At first my pedal went to the floor after the install and bleeding the brakes.
After I bled the master cylinder, the pedal was nice and firm. The pedal does seem a little firmer now with the SS lines than before, but not by much.
I just installed front SS lines from Russel. Much easier install than I expected. At first my pedal went to the floor after the install and bleeding the brakes.
After I bled the master cylinder, the pedal was nice and firm. The pedal does seem a little firmer now with the SS lines than before, but not by much.
I am installing the MM lines these weekend they also have a protective cover and a banjo fitting for proper alignment. If you are going to be going to the track often you might want to take a look at Motive Power Bleeder . It pressurized the brake system to insure you get all air out and doesn't require somebody pressing the brake while you bleed the line. Every time before you go to the track you should change your fluid and this makes that very easy and fast. Make sure you use Ford HD Brake fluid it is one of the best around.
That's cool but a little pricey. I use an 8 ft piece of clear Tygon tubing that fits tightly on the nipple. Hang it from anything handy. You can see when all the bubbles are out, see the color of the fluid so you know when the old stuff is flushed out, and don't need another person. I think it would be easier to teach my dog to drive than get my wife to finesse the brake pedal!
Talked to the folks at Kenny Brown today. My kit was missing parts and there are instructions! They were very nice. Sounds like they are going to exchange them. Wow, with actual instructions I can do them myself. I feel less stupid and more manly already. Gotta go drink a beer and scratch myself.
Talked to the folks at Kenny Brown today. My kit was missing parts and there are instructions! They were very nice. Sounds like they are going to exchange them. Wow, with actual instructions I can do them myself. I feel less stupid and more manly already. Gotta go drink a beer and scratch myself.
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