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SVTPerformance's Chain of Restaurants
The Blower Bistro
KB vs. Whipple superchargers.
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<blockquote data-quote="Tex Arcana" data-source="post: 1968396" data-attributes="member: 15892"><p>Wow, this is absolutely amazing. One, that a pair of manufacturer representatives would actually go at it like this; another because of the information this is dusting up. </p><p></p><p>However, mike69440 said it right in his post, and I have yet to see the answer to his question:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>KB's flunkies posted some information, which was based on some tests he claims as having been done, and they show what he wanted them to show. Now, of course, we all should konw that a test can be designed to play to the strengths of a particular item; we also know that there are "lies, damn lies, and statistics", meaning that statistics can be twisted to say anything you want them to. </p><p></p><p>To be honest, it's good that Dustin chose to post up himself, even if he has a paucity of numbers to back himself up: his information parallels that I found independently a few years ago (when the Lysholm design started showing up) and I went looking for the source of the design--and my research showed that Lysholm was the originator of the twin-screw design, and that they are the primary licensers of said design to both Whipple and to Kenne Bell, and that neither are true originators of the design. My research also showed that the Whipple was ISO 9003 certified (IIRC--it was a couple years ago, and I can't find any information now about this), thanks to their association with Eaton and the use of their drive internals, which KB couldn't claim at the time. </p><p></p><p>KBs are popular because for a while there they were the only game in town for Ford products, both Mustangs and Lightnings. One of my Cobra compatriots (name withheld here for obvious reasons) has an early KB on his '03 Cobra, and he STILL has issues with the oil blowby (an issue which, to me, should've been dealt with by KB not only under warranty, but immediately with a mod to repair the issue, not a kludge--the oil recovery system--to get by the problem, which really never solved the issue), which KB never made good on. His beast makes 600+ at the wheels now, which is a good thing, but if it were me, KB would never have gotten away with telling me to "live with it". </p><p></p><p>Now that Whipple is in the game, it seems that anything coming from KB is negative and makes claims and posts numbers which are not independently verifiable, at least by consumers. And when they get more and more stridently "propagandizing", to the point of pulling minor parts to show that "the KB is superior because the widget is BIGGER" (not a direct quote, just an example of how the PDF reads), that tells me that the "data sheet" is nothing more than a propaganda sheet, with numbers throw in to make it look legitimate.</p><p></p><p>In defense of KB, Dustin definitely needs more raw "numbers" to back up some of his claims. He already posted the info needed to clarify the relationship issue; I can also understand why he felt he needed to defend his company (just look at the "comparison" PDF from KB, which is definitely a shot at Whipple). However, they both need to step back a bit and be a bit more professional--and Jim Bell should either step in and help defuse this, or tell his flunkies to tone down their rhetoric; Dustin, so should you. </p><p></p><p>Now, to the issue of which is better: I propose a truly independent test, and I offer up my 2001 Lightning as the test bed. Both of you send me equally-matched blower kits for my truck. I will take each kit, hook it up to a flow test bench, test each one for maximum flow. Then, I will install each unit on my truck, and run a dyno in a controlled-environment dyno for each one. The one that flows the most and puts out the most power, wins. However, these kits must be off-the-shelf, if either one looks like a "ringer" (and I'll look!), the test will be invalidated, and the other will be the default winner.</p><p></p><p>So, what say y'all?? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tex Arcana, post: 1968396, member: 15892"] Wow, this is absolutely amazing. One, that a pair of manufacturer representatives would actually go at it like this; another because of the information this is dusting up. However, mike69440 said it right in his post, and I have yet to see the answer to his question: KB's flunkies posted some information, which was based on some tests he claims as having been done, and they show what he wanted them to show. Now, of course, we all should konw that a test can be designed to play to the strengths of a particular item; we also know that there are "lies, damn lies, and statistics", meaning that statistics can be twisted to say anything you want them to. To be honest, it's good that Dustin chose to post up himself, even if he has a paucity of numbers to back himself up: his information parallels that I found independently a few years ago (when the Lysholm design started showing up) and I went looking for the source of the design--and my research showed that Lysholm was the originator of the twin-screw design, and that they are the primary licensers of said design to both Whipple and to Kenne Bell, and that neither are true originators of the design. My research also showed that the Whipple was ISO 9003 certified (IIRC--it was a couple years ago, and I can't find any information now about this), thanks to their association with Eaton and the use of their drive internals, which KB couldn't claim at the time. KBs are popular because for a while there they were the only game in town for Ford products, both Mustangs and Lightnings. One of my Cobra compatriots (name withheld here for obvious reasons) has an early KB on his '03 Cobra, and he STILL has issues with the oil blowby (an issue which, to me, should've been dealt with by KB not only under warranty, but immediately with a mod to repair the issue, not a kludge--the oil recovery system--to get by the problem, which really never solved the issue), which KB never made good on. His beast makes 600+ at the wheels now, which is a good thing, but if it were me, KB would never have gotten away with telling me to "live with it". Now that Whipple is in the game, it seems that anything coming from KB is negative and makes claims and posts numbers which are not independently verifiable, at least by consumers. And when they get more and more stridently "propagandizing", to the point of pulling minor parts to show that "the KB is superior because the widget is BIGGER" (not a direct quote, just an example of how the PDF reads), that tells me that the "data sheet" is nothing more than a propaganda sheet, with numbers throw in to make it look legitimate. In defense of KB, Dustin definitely needs more raw "numbers" to back up some of his claims. He already posted the info needed to clarify the relationship issue; I can also understand why he felt he needed to defend his company (just look at the "comparison" PDF from KB, which is definitely a shot at Whipple). However, they both need to step back a bit and be a bit more professional--and Jim Bell should either step in and help defuse this, or tell his flunkies to tone down their rhetoric; Dustin, so should you. Now, to the issue of which is better: I propose a truly independent test, and I offer up my 2001 Lightning as the test bed. Both of you send me equally-matched blower kits for my truck. I will take each kit, hook it up to a flow test bench, test each one for maximum flow. Then, I will install each unit on my truck, and run a dyno in a controlled-environment dyno for each one. The one that flows the most and puts out the most power, wins. However, these kits must be off-the-shelf, if either one looks like a "ringer" (and I'll look!), the test will be invalidated, and the other will be the default winner. So, what say y'all?? ;) [/QUOTE]
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KB vs. Whipple superchargers.
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