Joe Gibbs oil

[Mystic_Cobra]

I've always (since 2000) run Mobil 1 10W30 is my 96 Cobra. Mostly because it was convenient, reasonably priced ($26-33/5qts), read good things about it, and it works.
My car is road raced only, no street use. I do about 10 race weekends per year and change oil after two weekends. Recommendation is from Blackstone labs based on reports.

Can you build a sufficient case to convert me to RP?

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I've always (since 2000) run Mobil 1 10W30 is my 96 Cobra. Mostly because it was convenient, reasonably priced ($26-33/5qts), read good things about it, and it works.
My car is road raced only, no street use. I do about 10 race weekends per year and change oil after two weekends. Recommendation is from Blackstone labs based on reports.

Can you build a sufficient case to convert me to RP?

Yes, I think I can.
Most horsepower gains in the industry.
Highest film strength in the industry.
Double or triple your drain interval compared to other race oils.
Can be special ordered from most local NAPA, O'Reilly, Carquest and Advanced Auto stores.
Also available from Summit Racing, Jegs, Pace Performance, Amazon.com and Luck7trucks.com.

Royal Purple XPR 5W-30 (part # 01021, quart bottle).

Combine that with many outstanding testimonials from many professional engine builders and race teams.

 

[Mystic_Cobra]

If you can show me data that shows RP (or Amsoil or RedLine) will better protect my engine at 280-300F, I'll switch in a heartbeat. I routinely see water temps near over 235 in summer and oil temps over 285 (in the pan). And happily pay double the price. It's a tiny fraction of what I spend in a year racing.

I rarely start the engine at temps below 50F (first race of the season is always at VIR in late Feb) since the car is in a enclosed trailered to the track and in the garage at home. Why 5W30 vs 10W30?

While were on the topic, does anyone know what group basestocks are used in Ford Motorcraft oil? Ford's site says "premium-quality, synthetic/hydroprocessed base oils" for both their Synthetic Blend AND their Full Synthetic.

 

[Ben99GT]

Synerlec = sulfurized ester?

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

If you can show me data that shows RP (or Amsoil or RedLine) will better protect my engine at 280-300F, I'll switch in a heartbeat. I routinely see water temps near over 235 in summer and oil temps over 285 (in the pan). And happily pay double the price. It's a tiny fraction of what I spend in a year racing.

I rarely start the engine at temps below 50F (first race of the season is always at VIR in late Feb) since the car is in a enclosed trailered to the track and in the garage at home. Why 5W30 vs 10W30?

While were on the topic, does anyone know what group basestocks are used in Ford Motorcraft oil? Ford's site says "premium-quality, synthetic/hydroprocessed base oils" for both their Synthetic Blend AND their Full Synthetic.

In the XPR race oils there is only one 30 weight. Since there is no disadvantage to having better cold flow a 5W-30 should not be an issue.

If you are currently using a 10W-30 Mobil 1 that is a non racing version of their oil, you could easily get by with the less expensive HPS series which does have a 10W-30 available. RP HPS 10W-30 (part #31130, quart bottle).

Even RP HPS series oils will have significantly higher film strength than most of our competitors full race oils.

If you can show me data that shows RP (or Amsoil or RedLine) will better protect my engine at 280-300F, I'll switch in a heartbeat.

How about a film strength video, data is only worth just so much.
Videos - Royal Purple

Synerlec = sulfurized ester?

Synerlec is a closely guarded proprietary compound that even I do not know what it is. The fact that no oil company has been able to duplicate it or even come close to it leads me to believe that it is not that simple.

 

[Mystic_Cobra]

Ok, so now I'm interested.

What about for my 6.4L PSD truck (15W40) with CJ-4 requirement?

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Why 5W30 vs 10W30?

10W-30 will have better shear resistance and lower NOACK volatility (evaporation/burn off).

While were on the topic, does anyone know what group basestocks are used in Ford Motorcraft oil? Ford's site says "premium-quality, synthetic/hydroprocessed base oils" for both their Synthetic Blend AND their Full Synthetic.

Syn blend = 70-80% group II dino petroleum blended with 20-30% group IV PAO true synthetic

Full syn = 100% group III hydrocracked petroleum or a blend of group III and group IV.

Ok, so now I'm interested.

What about for my 6.4L PSD truck (15W40) with CJ-4 requirement?

Amsoil AME 15W-40: for non-DPF trucks

Amsoil DME 15W-40: for DPF trucks

Filter choice depends on year, make, model, engine, etc.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Ok, so now I'm interested.

What about for my 6.4L PSD truck (15W40) with CJ-4 requirement?

During the warranty period Royal Purple SAE 15W-40 (part # 01154, quart bottle). A CJ4 licensed oil.

After warranty compliance is no longer an issue, for a significant upgrade in protection and performance RP HPS 10W-40 (part # 31140, quart bottle). Similar to our old formula CI4+ 15w40 except even more robust and with slightly better 10w cold flow. Unfortunately we had to pull Synerlec from our SAE 15w40 due to the newer API chemistry restrictions.

HPS is a non API----> performance oil, and has a very generous dose of Synerlec yet it is completely safe for particulate filters, cats, etc.

 

[Mystic_Cobra]

So, why doesn't the better oil meet the API regs?

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

So, why doesn't the better oil meet the API regs?

Current API oils have chemistry restrictions. These restriction seldom take into account the possibility that high end oil companies like Royal Purple are going to be using additive examples that are extremely costly, have very high retention and extremely low volatility, which means the restricted chemicals likely would not have ended up in the exhaust stream anyway.

If you have equipment that is under warranty, run an API oil as required, if you are buying bargain oil from a 7/11, or Walmart, look for an API oil.

If you are buying cutting edge, state of the art, boutique oils like RP, Amsoil, Redline, Motol, etc you do not need the API to protect you from accidentally picking up sub-standard oils.

Many performance oils from the majors have warnings about not using them for street use because they exclude using normal detergent add packs and have higher volatility anti wear components. We take no such short cuts or cost saving measures.

If you buy a Bugatti Veyron and want to run the best oil in the world in it, you are not going to want to worry about your cats or gunk in your engine. That's why we build our top XPR racing oil like we do.

 

[03dsgdreams]

Other lubricants tested in my (and other) GT500's with success:

• Amsoil ATM 10W-30 for 170* thermostat cars
• Amsoil AMO 10W-40 for 192* thermostat cars & extended session road racing
• Amsoil EaO11 - GT500 & Termi *same filter as Royal Purple 20-820*
• Amsoil EaO17 - 2011+ GT & 2012+ Boss 302 *same filter as Royal Purple 20-500*

Unleashed I used a EA011 on my 2012 GT and just realized I used the wrong filter after reading your post. It went on just fine and doesn't seem to be leaking. Should I change to the EA017 or can I just use the EA011 until the next oil change?

 

[Ben99GT]

Synerlec is a closely guarded proprietary compound that even I do not know what it is. The fact that no oil company has been able to duplicate it or even come close to it leads me to believe that it is not that simple.

Check out the sulfur concentrations of RP 10W-30 (with Synerlec): Petroleum Quality Intitute of America

All of the other RP claims concerning Synerlec, like its ability to cling to metal, screams ester.

Also, failed to come close in what way? The Falex test?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5WXbj5jbN8

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Check out the sulfur concentrations of RP 10W-30 (with Synerlec): Petroleum Quality Intitute of America

All of the other RP claims concerning Synerlec, like its ability to cling to metal, screams ester.

Also, failed to come close in what way? The Falex test?

Exposing the "One Arm Bandit" - YouTube

Pretty blatant manipulation just to prove a point.
Torque wrench controlled by hand instead of weights.
Bearing was not changed each time, either.:dw:
Of course you can manipulate one of those tests if you want to, we don't need to manipulate a Falex test.

The Royal Purple demos are done with weights and a new bearing each time, we are also careful not to rush the other brands, or be abrupt with the weights so as to be as fair as possible. The results when carefully and fairly done are repeatable.

If Synerlec could be so easily copied how come no one has done it yet and named their own version and improved their own oil?:shrug:

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Current API oils have chemistry restrictions. These restriction seldom take into account the possibility that high end oil companies like Royal Purple are going to be using additive examples that are extremely costly, have very high retention and extremely low volatility, which means the restricted chemicals likely would not have ended up in the exhaust stream anyway.

Al Amatuzio has been debating this with the API for a very long time. The argument has fallen on deaf ears.

The API is very biased on petroleum based lubricants.

 

[Mystic_Cobra]

Al Amatuzio has been debating this with the API for a very long time. The argument has fallen on deaf ears.

The API is very biased on petroleum based lubricants.

I can see why, given the "P" in the middle of the org's name. BUT I thought even the real synthetic oils used basestocks that came from petroleum.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

I can see why, given the "P" in the middle of the org's name. BUT I thought even the real synthetic oils used basestocks that came from petroleum.

Hydrocracked group III base stocks are refined from petroleum. Other high end true synthetics are derived from raw "pure" materials and newer natural gas to liquid processes.

 

[Ben99GT]

Pretty blatant manipulation just to prove a point.
Torque wrench controlled by hand instead of weights.
Bearing was not changed each time, either.:dw:
Of course you can manipulate one of those tests if you want to, we don't need to manipulate a Falex test.

Head & Shoulders well in the Falex lubricity test.

The Royal Purple demos are done with weights and a new bearing each time, we are also careful not to rush the other brands, or be abrupt with the weights so as to be as fair as possible. The results when carefully and fairly done are repeatable.

Here's an independent Falex test performed with the oil at operating temp.

Motor Oil Wear Test Results

I'm of the opinion that the Falex lubricity test and the 4-ball wear test are fairly irrelevant to motor oils with little bearing on how they perform in actual running engines. There might be some correlation between such tests and their performance in solid lifter engines (especially the 4-ball), but that's about it.

If Synerlec could be so easily copied how come no one has done it yet and named their own version and improved their own oil?:shrug:

The sulphur concentrations in RP's Synerlec oils are over 13,000 ppm! Most oils try to limit SAPs for reduced piston/ring deposits if nothing else.

The real question is why hasn't anyone tried to copy Synerlec? Even non-API boutiques like Amsoil Signature Series/Dominator and Red Line, are they incapable or do they just deem it unnecessary?

 

[Ben99GT]

I can see why, given the "P" in the middle of the org's name. BUT I thought even the real synthetic oils used basestocks that came from petroleum.

Group III is hydrocracked crude, some of the newer Group III+ oils like Shell's GTL are closer to a "true synthetic" by definition but their NOACK volatility %s are still more in line with hydrotreated group IIIs than PAOs.

PAO is derived from ethylene gas using a GTL process. So in reality PAO has roots in petroleum.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=75837

Esters are built by reacting acids and alcohols.
http://www.jobbersworld.com/September news briefs/ResourceRoom/RM-AboutEsters.htm

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I'm of the opinion that the Falex lubricity test and the 4-ball wear test are fairly irrelevant to motor oils with little bearing on how they perform in actual running engines.

We completely agree with this, the bottom line is how the oils perform in the equipment they were designed to be run in.

No better test can be found than that.
Our track record stands on it's own.

 

[Ben99GT]

We completely agree with this, the bottom line is how the oils perform in the equipment they were designed to be run in.

No better test can be found than that.
Our track record stands on it's own.

I agree that RP has proven to be a very good oil. I was just wondering what was the basis for the comment that no one has come close to the performance of Synerlec? Was the comment based on the Falex tester results?