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Discussion in '2020+ Shelby GT500 Mustang' started by D'ZR1 Messiah, Jun 19, 2019.
weight my friend .....weight
We’re talking the new C8 right? Only option is base and Z51 performance pack?
Yes, not scared even at 4100#. No way it’s more than that.
Plus, I don’t drive stock cars, so it’s irrelevant to me. I mean we have guys debating the Demon and other cars like stock for stock down to the tires is the only way to compare cars.
I really like what we’ve seen of the new C8, just not going nuts until we see it released. Same for GT500, but I have a lot more confidence in that 5.2/TVS 2650 combo.
On the thermal note, there is some amount of transfer loss from metal to metal torque distribution, but I think gtpremi nailed it
Exactly this. The faster you try to get those stationary objects to spin up will take more torque.
The total force required to take a hypothetical 100lbs drivetrain to accelerate from 0rpm to 4000rpm in let’s say 3 seconds is much more than to do so in 6 seconds. I completely agree.
There are many forces at play here.
The LARGEST CONTRIBUTOR is that force we just described. That is why once in motion, it will take much less torque to keep it spinning, just as the other member, @AustinJ427 was saying. Once the drivetrain has reached a speed, maintaining it won’t take much torque at all, probably about 1/10th the force needed to get it there.
Take a plate and spin it on a top. Then just flick it a little to keep it spinning. It took much more input force to get it to spinning than to keep it there.
To the idea of say a 50tq engine driving a gt500 drivetrain to 4000rpm, I totally agree it could, but it will be very innefiicent at doing so. It will likely take it a lot more gasoline to do so and do so much more slowly.
It would actually be a very interesting experiment to see what happens when you strap a heavy duty drivetrain to a tiny engine.
My dealer just sent me a screen shot of the base curb weight. 4225 lbs
I'll dig it out. Here you go.
Track pack, maybe 100lbs less? 4125 wouldnt be all that terrible.
Sent from my POFS iPhone in a rage cause this is the third try.
look above your post Sir.
What you guys aren't taking into account is the ambiguity of factory ratings. I've seen a handful of Quattro Audi cars dyno within 20 horsepower at the wheels of their crank rating. So, do we get all technical and try to explain it, or is the easier answer that the factory under rates them?
Get a data log on the dyno and calculate your brake specific fuel consumption and compare that to the reading at the MAF, and compare that calculated crank figure to whatever you make at the wheels. Airflow and fuel being used is a set in stone calculation for horsepower, everything else is pretty arbitrary.
Even then, you're not accounting for variance from dyno to dyno. I had my car on 2 different dynos an hour apart and there was a 50 WHP and 75 WTQ discrepancy between the both of them. Did I magically lose a larger percentage on the first dyno?
That makes sense intuitively, but isn't how it works. It will always be a percentage of power input that is lost. E.G., you can spin an input shaft, and probably the entire drivetrain by hand. If they always took 10, 50, 100+hp, there is no chance in hell you could spin it by hand, or take off from a stop when your 4 cyl is only making 50lb/ft of torque.
I think you're right that with identical drivetrain, the % loss will not be the same between different power levels, but I don't know for sure.
No.....I just view that as a better metric of real world speed than a 0-60 time. Chevy advertised the 0-60 because it was a class leader. If the C8 ran the quarter in sub 11 seconds don't you think they would say it? I am sure they would, and they don't. The C8 is heavier and has a worse power to weight than a c6 z06. It is not going to be faster. Most modern cars get to 50 so fast that it is pointless.. When I am feeling immature and some Tesla guy feels like he is faster than my dinosaur, they always jump out from a stop, but they always get walked. Next time you are feeling froggy. go run a guy that traps 10 mph more than you from aa roll. That will illustrate my point.
If you were referring to road course times, I am pretty sure you are just as ignorant as I am since nothing is public. I think most people with a working brain would assume the gt500 will kill a base c8 on a road course, but amy u[graded models with more nuts will be to compete with for anyone, factoring in cost.
Eh? Maybe my brain does not work but I think a base C8 vs. GT500 will be a drivers race on most tracks. It would come down to how long the straight aways are, short and technical and the C8 will eat GT500 lunch.
This is my point. There are certainly some points that are variable, i.e. the percentage, but there are certainly some that are fixed. Spinning a 20lb driveshaft at 8000 engine tpm seems like it would be pretty fixed. I am saying the percentage is most likely not fixed with varying power levels, and the only thing that matters to "us" is whp and shift times.
So I presume you believe a base C8 will outrun a ZL1 1le on a track, which means it would out run a large number of earlier top level corvettes? Don't you think that would be mentioned in the launch if that were the case? Maybe their marketing sucks more than Ford's, but I doubt it...They sure harp on that 0-60, so I would assume they would mention the on track performance.
Haha yes, the C8 will be faster than a G6 Zl1 1le.
I cannot recall if I heard it at the release or somewhere else but the C8 Z51 will be faster than all vettes to this point save the C7ZR1.
5.55lbs/hp. Still pretty decent. Last model was 5.81lbs/hp, but also manual transmission. Hopefully, this new GT500 scoots to 60 in 3.2 seconds....
The base or Z51 will not be faster than a Zl1 1le. The Z51 will be a good match for a base 500. BUT in real life every car no matter what it is comes down to driver.
I don't think you're taking into account the mechanical grip advantages of a mid engine platform. Didn't Chevy advertise the C8 hitting ~1.0G on a skid pad on all seasons... The Alpha chassis is good, sure, but there's nothing magic about the ZL1 1LE other than some decently big and sticky tires + a ton of horsepower. Even so, big and sticky tires are not much of an equalizer to just a superior platform. We saw this with virtually stock S550 cars running all over decently modified S197 cars because of the IRS improvement.
I'd be willing to bet a Z51 is at least pretty even with a Zl1 1LE, if not faster.
I do agree that at the end of the day though it's almost always a driver's race.
Fair, but I will say that GM marketing geniuses would look kind of dumb if the biggest rollout vette (ever?) could not hang with the previous generation CAMARO. Don't you think?
doesnt GT500 pull 1.5g's?