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SVTPerformance's Chain of Restaurants
Tuning À la carte
Is Your Car Tuned Correctly?
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<blockquote data-quote="blackshelby" data-source="post: 12512363" data-attributes="member: 83686"><p>Great example and great example why so many tuners are missing the big picture . Also the same reason why so many tuners have issues with hanging idles, pinging, start up issues etc and don’t understand why........................ </p><p></p><p>I believe that is main point of the Article by the OP. He posted direct quotes made by Ford on the correct method... not a method used by some aftermarket tuners that are maybe close and get you by.</p><p>I really doubt these tuners are smarter than the people who designed the system.</p><p></p><p>It’s pretty plain and simple but wrong to do what you are suggesting as correct or acceptable. (I know those setups very well since I personally tuned hundreds of them, I also sent out that setup to be flowed and the curve is dramatically different compared to the stock setup. I flowed every meter combo that I ever used and created a library of all the transfer curves I obtained for those setups. This ensured they could be used in other cars and have been with zero issues.</p><p> </p><p>Many people you refer to might argue..... why ?? because they were taught that way.... by who? the aftermarket? ( mostly SCT classes) .</p><p>If they were taught by the people who designed the system they would be shown why it is wrong and their opinion would change completely. The problem is the aftermarket taught many tuners a short cut. Sometimes you can get away with being close but again it will never 100% prefect. </p><p></p><p>You say injector slopes are known... but what about fuel pump flow ,fuel line flow, fuel pressure, pressure drop, fuel temp? Fuel pressure will directly affect injector slope values as will pump voltage. These injector slopes are not rock solid and depending on fuel systems. You do not know the correct fuel flow values for the complete system nor do you know if they will stay consistent? Example: What happens when you put a “boost-a-pump in the system? Unless you have every value of known fuel flow thinking you know the injector values alone will simply not cut it.</p><p></p><p>One could back track and obtain a pretty accurate MAF transfer curve by measuring a/f but one would need to also monitor your complete fuel flow, fuel usage. etc. at the same time.(pretty sophisticated equipment is needed and really should be done in a controlled environment ) You need to be dead on with all your fuel flows from fuel pumps, to fuel pressure etc to back track and that will get you close but never a perfect MAF curve. </p><p></p><p>The big problem is tuners don’t want to send something out or spend the extra time to do it correctly so they basically take a short cut that is flawed. In the older cars pre 05 this method was fast and could get you close enough were most issues would not be seen. That still doesn’t make it correct just a way to get by/close)</p><p></p><p>Lets take your example and understand why you have a factory MAF and factory MAF transfer curve which needed to be changed..</p><p>Anytime you change the tubing especially in front of the meter itself you change the way the air flows past the sensor (your example of laminar air flow). You basically put a new meter on the car. You changed the way the air goes past the sensor...... you will need a completely new transfer curve because the air is not going straight past the sensor like it did before the tube was placed in front of it. </p><p>You are correct about flowing your exact setup to get a real flow curve. Flowing a meter on a flow bench is the way Ford /GM and all tuners who really understand it do it. (they do not do it on the car). Flowing the complete MAF setup on a bench also gives you the full range of the sensor in that MAF housing combo. A full flow range can never be achieved with the method you suggest unless you basically pegged the meter. A mass produced or a “one off” meter should all be calibrated the same way, on a flow bench. There is no reason it cannot be done that way. There are plenty of company’s that offer that type of service for the BEST/ELITE tuners.</p><p></p><p>When Electronic Throttle Control (DBW) was introduced in 2005 it virtually eliminated the fudge factor tuners were getting away with. Further, now with the new digital meters (frequency sensors) on all 2011 and up cars it is even more critical than ever.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="blackshelby, post: 12512363, member: 83686"] Great example and great example why so many tuners are missing the big picture . Also the same reason why so many tuners have issues with hanging idles, pinging, start up issues etc and don’t understand why........................ I believe that is main point of the Article by the OP. He posted direct quotes made by Ford on the correct method... not a method used by some aftermarket tuners that are maybe close and get you by. I really doubt these tuners are smarter than the people who designed the system. It’s pretty plain and simple but wrong to do what you are suggesting as correct or acceptable. (I know those setups very well since I personally tuned hundreds of them, I also sent out that setup to be flowed and the curve is dramatically different compared to the stock setup. I flowed every meter combo that I ever used and created a library of all the transfer curves I obtained for those setups. This ensured they could be used in other cars and have been with zero issues. Many people you refer to might argue..... why ?? because they were taught that way.... by who? the aftermarket? ( mostly SCT classes) . If they were taught by the people who designed the system they would be shown why it is wrong and their opinion would change completely. The problem is the aftermarket taught many tuners a short cut. Sometimes you can get away with being close but again it will never 100% prefect. You say injector slopes are known... but what about fuel pump flow ,fuel line flow, fuel pressure, pressure drop, fuel temp? Fuel pressure will directly affect injector slope values as will pump voltage. These injector slopes are not rock solid and depending on fuel systems. You do not know the correct fuel flow values for the complete system nor do you know if they will stay consistent? Example: What happens when you put a “boost-a-pump in the system? Unless you have every value of known fuel flow thinking you know the injector values alone will simply not cut it. One could back track and obtain a pretty accurate MAF transfer curve by measuring a/f but one would need to also monitor your complete fuel flow, fuel usage. etc. at the same time.(pretty sophisticated equipment is needed and really should be done in a controlled environment ) You need to be dead on with all your fuel flows from fuel pumps, to fuel pressure etc to back track and that will get you close but never a perfect MAF curve. The big problem is tuners don’t want to send something out or spend the extra time to do it correctly so they basically take a short cut that is flawed. In the older cars pre 05 this method was fast and could get you close enough were most issues would not be seen. That still doesn’t make it correct just a way to get by/close) Lets take your example and understand why you have a factory MAF and factory MAF transfer curve which needed to be changed.. Anytime you change the tubing especially in front of the meter itself you change the way the air flows past the sensor (your example of laminar air flow). You basically put a new meter on the car. You changed the way the air goes past the sensor...... you will need a completely new transfer curve because the air is not going straight past the sensor like it did before the tube was placed in front of it. You are correct about flowing your exact setup to get a real flow curve. Flowing a meter on a flow bench is the way Ford /GM and all tuners who really understand it do it. (they do not do it on the car). Flowing the complete MAF setup on a bench also gives you the full range of the sensor in that MAF housing combo. A full flow range can never be achieved with the method you suggest unless you basically pegged the meter. A mass produced or a “one off” meter should all be calibrated the same way, on a flow bench. There is no reason it cannot be done that way. There are plenty of company’s that offer that type of service for the BEST/ELITE tuners. When Electronic Throttle Control (DBW) was introduced in 2005 it virtually eliminated the fudge factor tuners were getting away with. Further, now with the new digital meters (frequency sensors) on all 2011 and up cars it is even more critical than ever. [/QUOTE]
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