Is there any reason for the intercooler bypass?

Catmonkey

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It is more of a mixing air into the coolant that is the issue, attempting to minimize that was the bypass. When both air and coolant are in the same tank and all coolant flow is also through that same tank, and agitation of that coolant in that tank with the degas air..........well, you can see the picture from there.....

Where ever the degas tank is in the system flow, air/coolant mixing can occur, of course the degas tank is at a higher point in the system to perform the degas function.

Even small air bubbles attaching to metal in the cooling system cause "Hot Spots". Most all of the coolant additives are designed to help minimize Hot Spots and minimizing the air/coolant mix to start with also minimizes Hot Spots.

It seems to me that going backwards from the SVT Engineer designed 2013/14 bypass system defeats the purpose of a better S/C cooling system. If the 2007-2012 S/C cooling system was good enough, they (Ford/SVT) would not have spent the R&D $$$$ on improving it and then the production change costs also.
Here is a typical 3X tank. If my coolant level is the red area, please explain how air at the top of the reservoir will get sucked down almost 12" into the outlet tube and into the intercooler system? I think the real problem is the reduced i.d. of the inlet which probably produced more agitation in the smaller OEM reservoir tank. Did Ford change the size of the tank? No, they carried over the old unit and added a less restrictive by-pass hose. Super high technology there.

If you think putting a bigger pump in the 13-14 and then running it at half capacity with insufficient wire size for the load is an engineering marvel, I guess I just don't get it. Ford designed a system that could handle 12 psi of boost and then programmed the car to pull 3* of timing at IAT2 temps of 125* and 6* by 150*. When you're raising boost by as much as 50%, your intercooler system is no longer capable of doing the job it was intended to do. Maybe I am going backwards, but I think that remains to be seen.

13108D080-BA.jpg
 

Catmonkey

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Other than cosmetics, what would be gained by increasing the size of the de-gas tank, & then by-passing it ?
Technically, it's not by-passed. The coolant flow is diverted and slowed down a bit. In measuring the inlet and outlet internal diameters of both the OEM degas tank and the 3x (actually a Ford part for another application) they are less than .5". That's necked down by 25% more than it should be for a 3/4" o.d. I can see the benefit of a by-pass to offset that and the reason I'm using one with a 3x tank. The OP does not have that built-in restriction with an aluminum tank.
 

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Technically, it's not by-passed. The coolant flow is diverted and slowed down a bit. In measuring the inlet and outlet internal diameters of both the OEM degas tank and the 3x (actually a Ford part for another application) they are less than .5". That's necked down by 25% more than it should be for a 3/4" o.d. I can see the benefit of a by-pass to offset that and the reason I'm using one with a 3x tank. The OP does not have that built-in restriction with an aluminum tank.
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The flow isn't slowed down, there is no flow. This is why 13/ 14 owners don't know when their pumps aren't working.
 

50stangpower

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The flow isn't slowed down, there is no flow. This is why 13/ 14 owners don't know when their pumps aren't working.

Right the only way you know if your pump is running is if you squeed the main line so fluid is forced to go through the bypass. Another thing I don't understand is how was it good enough for 6 years but not the last 2?
 

Robert M

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Here is a typical 3X tank. If my coolant level is the red area, please explain how air at the top of the reservoir will get sucked down almost 12" into the outlet tube and into the intercooler system? I think the real problem is the reduced i.d. of the inlet which probably produced more agitation in the smaller OEM reservoir tank. Did Ford change the size of the tank? No, they carried over the old unit and added a less restrictive by-pass hose. Super high technology there.

If you think putting a bigger pump in the 13-14 and then running it at half capacity with insufficient wire size for the load is an engineering marvel, I guess I just don't get it. Ford designed a system that could handle 12 psi of boost and then programmed the car to pull 3* of timing at IAT2 temps of 125* and 6* by 150*. When you're raising boost by as much as 50%, your intercooler system is no longer capable of doing the job it was intended to do. Maybe I am going backwards, but I think that remains to be seen.

View attachment 1522566

Ok, so now take that same 3X tank with the red line coolant level and toss that tank into a hard right hand turn, or a hard deceleration, where is that red line going to be? partially or fully below that upper nipple. Now the coolant in the reservoir is partially or fully below that nipple and the incoming coolant is now agitating with the degas air pocket that was above the nipple when the car was not being "tossed" around. It is only natural that the coolant is going to climb up the opposite side of the tank when .xx g force is applied. If it climbs up one side, it is going to go lower on the opposite side. If I remember correctly, there is some baffling in the reservoirs, the engine side for sure, but I have not compared the insides of all of the reservoirs for baffles.

Now take the car into a series of right and lefts like a chicane, and see how much air gets agitated into that S/C coolant system. If the full flow runs through the reservoir, it is always exposed to the degas air.

Take that reservoir and cap the upper and lower nipples add liquid to the red line and then start to tilt the reservoir to the left indicating a right turn or tilt it forward indicating a braking situation. <<<None of this is with any .xx g force involved as would be reality in a driving situation...........The upper nipple will become uncovered rather quickly with any force applied and uncovered meaning the fluid level in the reservoir is partially or fully below the upper nipple, and coolant/degas air agitation occurs. <<<Again, using the reservoir as a fill and degas point and by-passing the reservoir for the main coolant flow minimizes agitating degas air into the coolant.

Does a larger reservoir add any cooling benefit to the system? IDK, but it looks nicer with a closer match in size to the engine reservoir (which is also on the side lines as it relates to the main coolant flow, minimizing air/coolant mixing)..........Another question has been asked in the past..........which reservoir material is better Plastic or Metal? Does one absorb heat? or does one transfer heat better into engine compartment air flow?


R
 
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Catmonkey

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I don't think it's possible to get enough G's to uncover the coolant level. If the level is too low to start with it may be possible, but I'm not sure how that translates to air at the outlet.
 

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So, after re-reading these posts, the group opinion is:
.
1. My setup can't work.
2. My setup shouldn't work.
3. My setup will hurt performance & may hurt something else.
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The car was modded & tuned in June 2014, & is still running !!!
 

Black Cobra '99

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So, after re-reading these posts, the group opinion is:
.
1. My setup can't work.
2. My setup shouldn't work.
3. My setup will hurt performance & may hurt something else.
.
The car was modded & tuned in June 2014, & is still running !!!

Your setup works for you, it may work for OP, hell it worked for me for 2 years!! The point is no setup is the same and no car is driven the same and we're all just sharing our experience. No need to make it a right or wrong situation.

OP, you don't have to add the bypass. But when something goes wrong you'll know exactly what to fix and thats that.
 

50stangpower

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Well I just finished it up tonight and kept the bypass but lost the restrictor in the hose. I had to cut it up and buy a little hose and an aftermarket T but it all fits now.

Thanks for the replies.
 

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Your setup works for you, it may work for OP, hell it worked for me for 2 years!! The point is no setup is the same and no car is driven the same and we're all just sharing our experience. No need to make it a right or wrong situation.

OP, you don't have to add the bypass. But when something goes wrong you'll know exactly what to fix and thats that.
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Exactly.
My 1st post is what the OP asked for to begin with.
My last post was in response to all the other posts stating why it can't / shouldn't work.
There is a difference between mods done in one's driveway, and mods done @ a shop and involving SVT in the discussion / decision process.
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...And your above comments make an excellent case against canned tunes !!
 

50stangpower

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Here are some pictures for anyone looking to do the same. you will need to sacrifice your factory hoses in order to get the tank to work with a 13/14. I used a 3/4" T, and a prebent 90* hose from Advance Auto for about $20.

45425265962_5e09737eaf_c.jpg
20181015_180012 by Brandon Hochheiser, on Flickr
here you can see its about 2" off of where you want the outlet.

44562744135_1f903d50cf_c.jpg
20181020_194607 by Brandon Hochheiser, on Flickr

here you can see where I used the factory 90* that I cut off and put it on top of the new T in order to run it into the new tank inlet.

44752955114_6571b90c1e_c.jpg
20181021_150731 by Brandon Hochheiser, on Flickr

here it is finished up
 

Catmonkey

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Is it possible to shorten the 90* hose to the tank for a little more clearance. Looks tight in the photo, but that can be deceiving too.
 

Robert M

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To those above who think I may have implied that there "owner modded" S/C cooling system won't work (or doesn't work), I don't think I have ever implied that, heck, if it didn't work, it would have been put back to a way that it did work and the mods that were made would not have been contributed to this discussion.

My point was much more simple, degas air mixing into any cooling system flow degrades the systems ability to remove heat, that is a fact. The SVT Engineers, after 2007-2012 decided to minimized the S/C coolant flow through the degas air, just as is the case from the beginning with the engine cooling system that is right next door.

If an owner feels that they need to see flow in the reservoir like there was in the 2007-2012 reservoir, that is great, it worked for that 5 year production run, but apparently not as well as is could have, or there would not have been a coolant flow engineering change for 2013.

I think adding a larger reservoir is great, but it would sure be nice to "also" keep the 2013/14 SVT Engineer S/C cooling system R&D findings incorporated into that larger reservoir system. <<<Those are just my thoughts on taking advantage to Ford deep pockets ($$$$) cooling system testing and development on the final production 2013 coolant plumbing.

I think I also mentioned...............very early in this thread, each owner has specific use for their GT500, so there are going to be variables. My thought was "if" the factory R&D can be kept in place as much as possible with a few tweaks, that would "usually" provide a decent cooling system set up for most owners on here.


R
 

Robert M

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I grabbed this picture of Fletch's GT500, it shows the car being pressed into a left turn, I am not sure how hard he is pressing his car in the photo, but it appears to be at least moderately...........and I am not sure that it is a really tight left turn, it dies not appear to be.......

44898099681-d60dfdb5d8-b.jpg


Note the splitter distance to the ground left side and right side, Cat's coolant level red line would be at that same angle and even worse if the car is "Really" being pressed into a turn (and possibly also braking). <<<This is what agitates the coolant and air together and the reason for the reservoir bypass. If the car were in a right turn, the red line would be high on the drivers side and lower on the passenger/ coolant inlet side. The harder the car is pressed, the more coolant red line angle. I'll bet the SVT Engineers take Great liberties when pressing these cars during testing.......

Thanks Fletch, Cool picture.


R
 

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Here are some pictures for anyone looking to do the same. you will need to sacrifice your factory hoses in order to get the tank to work with a 13/14. I used a 3/4" T, and a prebent 90* hose from Advance Auto for about $20.
.
here you can see where I used the factory 90* that I cut off and put it on top of the new T in order to run it into the new tank inlet.
.
here it is finished up
.
Two questions:
1. Is the larger amount of fluid in the tank being used as part of the flow path ?
....( unsure how the by-pass works without the restrictor )
2. If not, what was the point of increasing the size of the tank ?
 

50stangpower

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It isn't. There is no point honestly except if I decide to go to the track I'll put in a shut off valve in the bypass and ice the intercooler.
 

Black Cobra '99

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2. If not, what was the point of increasing the size of the tank ?

Well theoretically, more coolant means more capacity to hold more heat regardless of the flow path, as long as it part of the system. I don't think the tank does much, but a trunk mounted reservoir will definitely help.
 

Robert M

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Two questions:
1. Is the larger amount of fluid in the tank being used as part of the flow path ?
....( unsure how the by-pass works without the restrictor )
2. If not, what was the point of increasing the size of the tank ?

This is only a guess.......... Without a restrictor I would think the "free flow" of coolant would go in the direction where the T is straight through and then, if there is an actual flow shut-off valve to redirect the flow (which actually sounds like a good idea) when drag racing and using ice in the reservoir, then all flow goes the alternate direction.


R
 

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