Is it worth going turbo if my goals are only 600rwhp??

Juiced46

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It is very smart to draw the line somewhere. Be patient, and you will find a good deal. I can look back and say that I wish i would have drawn the line where your at. My car was at about 700/600 with the 2.9 and it was the best combo ive had. Didn't have all kinds of issues. Still hooked up good. Good luck with your car.

Chris

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The problem for me is, I draw a line, then go past it every time. It is never good enough! lol.

To be 100% completely honest. This is for me and my personal experience. Going turbo was the best thing I ever did. The car, the way I set it up was also the most reliable when I went turbo with very few headaches. I was fighting more IAT issues, belt/pulley problems, superchargers leaking etc etc when I ran Twin screws( you have to remember though, this was from 2003-2005 for me, alot has changed). The turbo setup for me, ended up working out the best. I have ran just about every combo you can imagine. Stock blower, stock blower ported then with nitrous. Procharger P1SC2 and F1A, twin screws then turbo. Turbo wins hands down :) You just need to have to budget for it. If you cut corners, use cheap parts, you WILL have issues, it will be a ton of headaches and you will hate it!

I went turbo in 2006-2007 back when there were much much less options then there is now also. With the advancement in what companies have to offer for parts, the info that is out there for what works on these cars and does not. You guys have it made now!
 
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lilmarauder

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The problem for me is, I draw a line, then go past it every time. It is never good enough! lol.

To be 100% completely honest. This is for me and my personal experience. Going turbo was the best thing I ever did. The car, the way I set it up was also the most reliable when I went turbo with very few headaches. I was fighting more IAT issues, belt/pulley problems, superchargers leaking etc etc when I ran Twin screws( you have to remember though, this was from 2003-2005 for me, alot has changed). The turbo setup for me, ended up working out the best. I have ran just about every combo you can imagine. Stock blower, stock blower ported then with nitrous. Procharger P1SC2 and F1A, twin screws then turbo. Turbo wins hands down :) You just need to have to budget for it. If you cut corners, use cheap parts, you WILL have issues, it will be a ton of headaches and you will hate it!

I went turbo in 2006-2007 back when there were much much less options then there is now also. With the advancement in what companies have to offer for parts, the info that is out there for what works on these cars and does not. You guys have it made now!
You are right, and I'm the same way, I was never satisfied. Even recently i fell victim to belt issues, which turned me on to a turbo setup, but if i wasn't craving more, i would have stuck with it and figured it out. I'm very excited to enjoy the turbo setup once it's done.

OP, There was the point where I was stock lower pulley, and it was reliable. After i started pushing the limits on the blower, things didn't work. But everyone has their own experience. It just comes down to the expense.


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stangfreak

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what are the flaws of the on3 kits? Is it the quality of the pipes being used?

I remember people bashing the hp performance kits. Iv seen cars from stat to finish with those kits and they fit fine and all the cars were in the mid 8's to low 9's with no issues.
 

stangfreak

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One more thing. what kits are available for the cobra guys? hpp, hellion, cg fab correct? I know the hpp kits are insanely expensive. It doesn't even come with the k member and suspension. I think the kit alone along with other stuff you need to purchase to complete the kit will end up costing 12K. I think. Thats just the parts lol
 

Juiced46

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what are the flaws of the on3 kits? Is it the quality of the pipes being used?

I remember people bashing the hp performance kits. Iv seen cars from stat to finish with those kits and they fit fine and all the cars were in the mid 8's to low 9's with no issues.

Everything LOL. On3 is outsourced chinese made parts. Most of the time their stuff is inconsistent. Parts do not line up, Vband flanges warped or do not seal. Piping modification needed etc etc. Yes, its cheap and it looks nice in a photo. Their turbos are trash, knockoff wastegates and BOVs. Cheap intercooler. It is all crap. Can you run 8s and 9s on it? Probably. But that does not mean the quality of the parts are good. The HP kits are crap too, especially the early run units. To say people did not have an issue with them, they are lying. I owned an HP kit. I can tell you first hand quality was terrible. Piping rubbing steering components, not fitting, rusted very easy, they used a flex mid section, drainback issues. Did people make them work? Absolutely. Did guys go fast on them? Yes they did. But to say there is no issues with the kit, that is very very false. There is no perfect "kit"

One more thing. what kits are available for the cobra guys? hpp, hellion, cg fab correct? I know the hpp kits are insanely expensive. It doesn't even come with the k member and suspension. I think the kit alone along with other stuff you need to purchase to complete the kit will end up costing 12K. I think. Thats just the parts lol

Yes you have the big names like HPP, Hellion, CG and On3. They all have their flaws. None are "perfect".

CG Fab is good quality. It is far from complete and needs fabrication to be finished.

HPP way too expensive. Also can use some fabrication to finish and just way to much $$$

Hellion, probably the best fitting kit with zero modification needed to make it work out of the box. But far from optimal and needs fabrication to optimize it. Smaller intercooler and cold side. Needs to be converted to blow through. No forward facing headers and (more piping) etc.

On3, I would just throw it in the garbage.

Your best bet to do it "correct" would be to use a local fabrication shop and have them make you something. Start with something like CG's manifold or hotside and build the kit to fit your car. It may be a little more expensive but it will be done CORRECTLY.

You can go fast on any kit. That does not mean anything. I have seen 7-8 sec cars that are hacked together, falling apart and down right dangerous. They get the job done with crap quality parts, but I wouldn't call that a success.

The people that say "I have no issues with a kit" are flat out lying.
 

s351

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With the hellion kit dave are you saying the intercoolers to small? I know the cold side holds it back but I never thought about the ic?
 

Juiced46

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dave, so the cg fab is the way to go? and have a shop finish off the fabrication?

That would be one of the better choices. Use the CG fab manifolds and have a shop finish the rest. Even the CG fab hotside kit has flaws. The wastegate position is not optimal, Caleb can modify it, but out of the box it is not in the best position or you can go to dual wastegates, more $$$$$. Will it work the way it is? Yes, but you very well can have issues with it. Also, his kit is not complete. It comes with a starter 3" downpipe. Unless you want to go out of the fender, which IMO is ridiculous for a street car, but to each their own. You need to fab that to connect to your catback. Then 3" may not be optimal depending on power so you will need to go 3.5"-4" depending on goals.

I have gone 9s with ease on Hellions basic kit, small intercooler and piping. But I am not going to preach its the best. It can be improved upon greatly.

With the hellion kit dave are you saying the intercoolers to small? I know the cold side holds it back but I never thought about the ic?

Yes, the intercooler is small and so is the cold side piping. On multiple builds I have done with Hellion kits we saw elevated IATs @ higher boost levels (20-30psi). The intercooler is restrictive for sure. Can you make big power on it? Yes. I have made 800-1000rwhp on it with the out of box intercooler and piping but like I said, we battled IAT issues, we aided it with meth to get IATs down. Switching to a larger intercooler and 3" cold side piping really uncorks it can make a bit more power with lower boost levels and lower IATs.
 
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fbody83

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Just curious, do IAT's get as high with turbos as they do with the twin screws? Can you see 140+ temps after one run down the 1/4 track?
 

stangfreak

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Just curious, do IAT's get as high with turbos as they do with the twin screws? Can you see 140+ temps after one run down the 1/4 track?

I could be wrong? but I think it would be less with turbo's. These big twinscrews just make a shit load of heat. joey at mustang magic doesn't even recommend going with a 3.4 whipple. If you run e85 he said fine. 2.9 is the biggest he recommends. If you want more power, he will tell you go turbo.
 

stangfreak

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Learn to weld. Do it yourself.

I wish I had the time lol. I barely get to the gym anymore. when you live in ny and deal with the city, nypd, fdy, port authority and the biggest construction names on the east coast and handle million upon million upon million of dollar contracts, you come home with chest pains.
 

NastyNate420

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I dont like the way hellion ran their exhaust but it is pretty much the only complete bolt on for our cars. I plan on using the CG hotside and modify it where needed.
 

Corbic

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Just curious, do IAT's get as high with turbos as they do with the twin screws? Can you see 140+ temps after one run down the 1/4 track?

No. considerably less.

Granted, depending on turbo placement you may still get a ton of heat in the engine bay. However, because of the location, reduction of internal friction and surface area, plus the ability to run more intake piping and a huge FMIC, you are not going to get the heat soak you normally see with a TS.
 

lilsilverponey

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I wish I had the time lol. I barely get to the gym anymore. when you live in ny and deal with the city, nypd, fdy, port authority and the biggest construction names on the east coast and handle million upon million upon million of dollar contracts, you come home with chest pains.

Sounds like what I do.
 

cj428mach

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Depends completely on your IC but on average turbo IAT's are lower than large TS blowers by a large amount.

Malcolm told me he's been tuning a twin turbo car and the iat2s on it actually drop when going into boost as you get the air speed to cool to cool the intercooler.

I believe he was saying that car was running around 100 degree iat2 vs his tvs car at over 150 degree iat2. The tvs was running more boost but its required to make similar power.
 

Juiced46

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Just curious, do IAT's get as high with turbos as they do with the twin screws? Can you see 140+ temps after one run down the 1/4 track?

Typically IATs are lower then a twin screw car. It all depends on the setup, if you are working a smaller turbo to hard IATs can go up, but still not touch where some twinscrews run in the IAT departmet. I typically saw 100-110* IATs on 80-90* days on my pump gas street tune. sub 100s on cooler days 50-70*. Once we approached 20-25psi it would go up a little to around 120-130ish. This was also on small 2.5" piping and a small intercooler.

The log below is seeing IAT1 (ambient) @ 80-84* at the end of the pull we see 110* measured in the intake manifold- IAT Downstream.

When I was running meth. On 90* days, typical IATs would be in the 70-80* range.
 

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