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Input shaft Spline Lube?

Discussion in 'Driveline' started by caveeagle, Nov 14, 2011.

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  1. caveeagle

    caveeagle Currently Decompressing Established Member

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    My new clutch kit did not come with spline lube. This is probably the 9th or 10th clutch I have replaced and never even had to think about what type of lube/grease it was that cave with the kits.

    I have heard to use a thick white lithium grease. Any other ideas??
     
  2. serper3

    serper3 New Member Established Member

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    i was also not sure what to use either... you are using a new pilot bearing right? it will come pre lubed with a small amount of grease... some say not to even add more .. i added some grease but generally people told me to use wheel bearing grease, multipurpose grease or something of the like. if you do add grease, make sure you add a very very small amount. the imput shaft fits snugly into the pilot bearing so excess grease will just sit right next to/on the splines and could easily get on the clutch material. i just applied a very small light coat and smeared it with my fingers leaving a light film.
     
  3. caveeagle

    caveeagle Currently Decompressing Established Member

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    I know the pilot bearing comes pre-lubed.

    I need to know what to use on the intput shaft splines. Most clutch kits come with a small packet of spline lube. This one did not.

    In searching, I have also found information about clutch problems with the '07 GT500 cars that were assembled without spline lube, causing the clutch disk to drag too much on the flywheel. It is my understanding that the disk needs to be able to float when disengaged.

    BTW, I would never put bearing grease on the input shaft spline. It would probably fling off an get on the clutch surface.
     
  4. serper3

    serper3 New Member Established Member

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    Lol you are not making much sense.

    You don't want any lube on the splines since the clutch disc sits directly on the splines. As soon as the input shaft spins, the grease will be flung all over the place. I have never heard any one putting grease on the splines themselves. The disc hardly moves on the input shaft any way.. And if you have "dragging" this is due to the clutch not disengaging fully..
     
  5. caveeagle

    caveeagle Currently Decompressing Established Member

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    You can 'LOL' all you want. This is not my first rodeo. Spline lube is pretty standard think that has been in all of the clutch kits I have purchased until now. The input shaft splines are nested inside the center of the clutch disk. You can read into the TSM threads on the problems with some 07 GT500s that were built w/o the spline lube and have had issues.

    The zoom clutch kit that I just returned had a small packet market 'spline lube'. Take a look at nearly all the stock cobra replacement kits (valeo), you can actually see the little packet of lube in most of the sales pics.

    The reason I am trying to find out what type of grease this is, is becaus I know it has to be a thick non-flowing grease that will not fling out when things get spinning.

    With all due respect (LOL) you are the first person I have heard from that thinks there should be NO lube on the input splines.

    I was at one of our local speed shop yesterday picking up a bottle of friction modifier and they use a spray on graphite dry lube. I will have to search this one.
     
  6. SVT_Troy

    SVT_Troy Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I'm no pro but I've never heard of putting grease on the teeth of the spline either.
     
  7. Wicked46

    Wicked46 Under Pressure Established Member

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    No lube needed. Thats what she said lol.. In all seriousness, you dont have to use any sort of greese on the input shaft (as stated above).
     
  8. black 10th vert

    black 10th vert Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I have always used a very thin coat of white lithium, or regular wheel bearing grease if that's all I had. You do not want, or need enough to worry about slinging into the clutch, just a thin film for assembly purposes and that's it. The dry graphite should be fine also.
     
  9. TRBO VNM

    TRBO VNM Authorized Vendor Authorized Vendor

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    OP, I have done a ton of clutch replacements on the terminators and have NEVER had this packet of spline lube you are talking about. The only liquid that every comes in the kits I have put in (spec, centerforce, stock) has been loctite for the flywheel and pp bolts. I have even done clutches in rangers, vettes and about to do one in a BMW...none have had spline lube

    I have put a little wheel bearing grease on the clutch fork pivot ball, end of the input shaft and a little at the end of the TOB sleeve where the input shaft goes through it.
     
  10. caveeagle

    caveeagle Currently Decompressing Established Member

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    Admittedly, this is my first Terminator clutch. So, I do appreciate all the input from those with more experience.

    I may be over-thinking this, but just to make sure I am not crazy, here are some facts!!
    Link to a mustang valeo clutch on ebay that clearly comes with the little packet of spline lube:
    86-01 MUSTANG VALEO FMS KING COBRA CLUTCH KIT 10.5" | eBay

    point#2: the zoom zvt clutch kit that I returned DID come with a little packed marked "spline lube". (decided not to go with a zoom clutch)

    point#3: I have done two saturn clutched in the last 13 months using Luk clutch kits. Both kits came with spline lube.

    Point#3:
    So, just for the record, I don't think I am crazy. The poster with his little 'LOL' kind of pi$$ed me off. It has been my experience that applying spline lube is a pretty standard practice. I am certainly ok with some here that recommend not applying the lube, but to condecend the opinion that it is a rediculous idea is just stupid and uninformed.

    The tranny should be going in this weekend. At this point, I will apply a very thin amount of white lith grease to the splines. FWIW.
     
  11. forgetful

    forgetful New Member

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    Sorry for dragging up an old post on a forum I don't even frequent, but I was researching what spline grease to use (not whether I should or not) on my clutch and this thread popped up.

    This really gets on my wick. Someone who doesn't know what they are talking about, but answers a question anyway, adding to the misinformation. (Ok, your post isnt total misinformation, you have two sentences which are ok) But not only that, seems to be unable to read a perfectly sensible paragraph from OP, not understand what the OP is saying and give an incorrect reply. If you don't understand then you are probably the wrong person to attempt to answer.

    I can see why OP got upset. I was outraged enough to join the forum and post a very long reply, and this has nothing to do with me.

    And then everyone else chimes in with incorrect answers too. Sorry if this offends: but, just because you dont do something like grease the splines doesn't necessarily mean you're doing the right thing. In fact, if someone says that they put grease somewhere I don't, my first reaction would be to read until I find a few different pieces of information about it, and come to a balanced decision. If I decide to give some help on the subject, I might explain the pros and cons. I wouldn't just tell them they were wrong.

    many apologies. </rant>

    So OP, you are correct, you are not crazy.
    See Sachs: SACHS | Greasing the Hub Spline of Clutch Disks
    explanation:
    when a clutch disk is pressed between the flywheel and the pressure plate, assuming the disc has the same material on each side, then half of the friction allowing torque transfer will come from the flywheel side. When there is less pressure on the clutch disc, the friction on the flywheel side will reduce, but it wont become zero until this pressure is zero. i.e., if the clutch disc doesn't move away from the flywheel, then it will drag. This drag may not be sufficient to let the engine move the wheels, but it may cause premature wear on the clutch, or poor disengagement.

    Grease:
    greasy stuff on the clutch disc is bad, your clutch won't hold as much torque.
    reduced friction on the splines will allow the disc to slide back and forth (a very very tiny distance) to perform its function.
    No grease wont necessarily hurt, the disc may just be a little tougher to move. But it may allow the clutch disc to rust and seize onto the input shaft. Even if it doesn't seize completely it may rust enough to reduce the movement enough to create problems.
    Grease may not be the best thing for the job. In a high load environment, it may just get squeezed out of the way. (300ft.lbs across a 28 spline 1in diam. input shaft would be 128lbs of force on each spline, that's a "slightly less than ideal weight, fully grown man" standing on each spline!)
    Any grease that is not contained between the input shaft and clutch disc splines may also flick off onto the clutch disc at the high speed it revolves at.

    So what to use:
    Sachs grease, above is designed for the job, I can't find any for sale though.
    Honda used to make Honda Super High Temp Urea Grease, specifically developed for the application. but now they dont.
    High % Moly grease works well. "Honda Moly 60" is 60% moly, 40% grease, the grease gets squeezed out, and the dry moly remains to provide lubrication. Available online, in the UK, here and in the US via google.
    Apparently loctite make a 70% moly grease, I found it somewhere, but it was more expensive.

    Note: I do not know exactly what moly is, just that it was designed with this application in mind.

    See here, someone who knows what they're talking about, understands the question, and posts a decent reply:
    MOLY GREASE - Steve Saunders Goldwing Forums

    Bottom line: you should put a very small amount (to stop excess of it being deposited in the wrong place along the shaft) of the right stuff on, and then wipe off any excess. (In my opinion). You may choose not to lube your shaft, but if you do and you read this, I hope it helps you.

    I feel I have added to the world's general knowledge enough for today.
    Thanks for reading this far, apologies for my intrusion, and I will now leave your forum in peace.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  12. oldmodman

    oldmodman Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I have always used Permatex Never Seize

    I only use a tiny amount, rub it into the splines then wipe it all off with a clean shop towel. Since I started working on cars in 1963 I have replaces a whole lot of clutches. Used the same grease and technique on all of them. And no matter how many miles have gone by before I pull it apart again I have never had any clutch binding or grease migration to the plates.

    It actually doesn't matter how much grease you slather on it as long as every trace is wiped off. The Never Seize leaves a metallic, high temp proof coating on the part.
     
  13. nextime

    nextime Termi? Read Signature Established Member

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    When I did my clutch in my 92GT it was a centerforce and it said lightly coat the splines with white lithium grease. I never had an issue with using it.
     
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