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****ing Alabama

Discussion in 'Politics Forum' started by ssj4sadie, May 18, 2019.

  1. Klay

    Klay Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Its something ive thought about hard over the years. My mother is a social worker. I have seen first hand what kids go through when they dont have a proper upbringing. Its better for them to never have lived at all then to live a shitty life.


    sidenote: idk wtf is going on my quoting[/QUOTE]

    See this arguement holds no weight either. Just because the chance is higher for them to have a crappy life doesn't mean they shouldn't get a chance at it. How many here had perfect upbringings? People can have terrible childhoods but still contribute to society and be good people.

    Otherwise, you are essentially arguing for euthanasia on poor people. Someone having a terrible upbringing doesnt justify killing them.
     
  2. Sinister04L

    Sinister04L RIP Kane Established Member

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    Wouldn't a viable fetus still in the womb also be life?
     
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  3. Klaus

    Klaus Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

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    I agree that viability outside the womb is a fair line in the sand. I am not sure what that number is though. It definately is not 22 weeks as 2 minutes of research tells me that only 35% born before 24 weeks survive.

    Because it isn't. It is a potential person. There is a difference.
     
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  4. Klaus

    Klaus Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

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    That is what I meant. If a fetus is at a stage where it is viable outside the body.
     
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  5. Smooth

    Smooth Well Seasoned Established Member

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    Seems to me that you care an awful lot.
     
  6. Revvv

    Revvv Infinity Poster Established Member

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    Wrong.
    I don't ever debate this issue using religion. I use science. You can call the child anything you want throughout the various stages of life, but that never changes the fact that the end stage is a child.

    A butterfly begins life as an egg, then a larvae / caterpillar, and then the metamorphic state in the cocoon in which the adult butterfly comes to full term. It is a living butterfly through all stages despite the life cycle, the end result is the same.

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  7. Revvv

    Revvv Infinity Poster Established Member

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    Wrong again. Take the time to look up when the heart beats, the brain forms, nerves are created, etc.

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  8. TK1299

    TK1299 Get on the banned wagon Premium Member Established Member

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    No Comrade Klaus, but we aren’t talking about aborting test tube babies are we?
     
  9. Klaus

    Klaus Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

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    I like the debate but do not really have a dog in the fight either way. If you cannot tell I am not having a meltdown over the Alabama decision.
     
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  10. Mpoitrast87

    Mpoitrast87 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    See this arguement holds no weight either. Just because the chance is higher for them to have a crappy life doesn't mean they shouldn't get a chance at it. How many here had perfect upbringings? People can have terrible childhoods but still contribute to society and be good people.

    Otherwise, you are essentially arguing for euthanasia on poor people. Someone having a terrible upbringing doesnt justify killing them.[/QUOTE]
    Im saying that if you KNOW for a FACT you cannot provide your child with a good life(3 meals a day/proper clothes/ and toys etc) then you should have the option to abort. Ive talked to many children who have attempted suicide because of their lifestyle. They see that their classmates have things that they dont. Or see that they have lunched paid for by the school because the parents cant pay for it while other students have money to pay for it. This seriously screws up alot of kids. Thats just one example. What about couples who take precautions(condoms and birth control) and still end up pregnant? They may not want kids. And people like that usually end up not being the greatest parents. I'm not saying everyone child should be killed but it certain situations i feel is it warranted.
     
  11. Klaus

    Klaus Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

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    Wrong about what? Share some links on medical consensus regarding when a zygote becomes a "person."

    What's the difference? If it is wrong to kill an embryo inside the womb why isnt it wrong to kill it outside the womb? It should be the fact that it is a potential person that matters to the life crowd, not the fact that it resides in or out of the womb.

    For this same reason, you should be just as worked up about capital punishment.
     
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  12. Revvv

    Revvv Infinity Poster Established Member

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    See this arguement holds no weight either. Just because the chance is higher for them to have a crappy life doesn't mean they shouldn't get a chance at it. How many here had perfect upbringings? People can have terrible childhoods but still contribute to society and be good people.

    Otherwise, you are essentially arguing for euthanasia on poor people. Someone having a terrible upbringing doesnt justify killing them.[/QUOTE]Allow me to contest the observation of your mother's social worker career (I know a few people in that field, and thay is a tough job, so my heart goes out to her).

    My niece was born, unwanted by the father, to a teenage girl still in school. She was born prematurely, and after this her first three years of life was spent in a home around drugs and alcohol. She knew more about weed than I did at three years old.

    Her mother abandoned her and she went to live with her grandparents. At this time my wife and I looked at adopting our niece to raise. Rather than complicate things, we just cared for her without the paperwork.

    At the age of about six my sister in law married an abusive alcoholic. Before anyone knew what was going on he adopted her and her name was changed. She lived in poverty with her sisters, watched her mother be abused, listened to verbal abuse no child should ever have to hear, and witnessed the attempted murder of her mother. Then she had to watch me pull a gun to protect her mother while a drill was held to her temple. The only thing that kept me from pulling the trigger was the watchful eyes of three little girls that did not need to see their dad killed by their uncle, regardless of the situation.

    Now she had to endure her mother's divorce, then the dating life of her mom. To make things worse her adopted dad committed suicide via a shotgun to the chin. This girl was an emotional wreck, and again she was looking at my wife, her grandparents, and me for support.

    That child beat all odds. She graduated Valedictorian, has attended college on a full scholarship, is headed to Greece over the summer for more studies, and is already looking at medical school.

    She will become a surgeon. So, is her life worthless? No, not at all. She will go on to save many lives.

    Her story fits that of many others.

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  13. Revvv

    Revvv Infinity Poster Established Member

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    You're reaching, and still wrong.

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  14. Klaus

    Klaus Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

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    About what? 35% of babies born before age of 24 months do not survive. Since they do not survive, they are not viable. Where is the disagreement.

    Let's flip the script. You tell me what "life" is and when it begins.
     
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  15. Smooth

    Smooth Well Seasoned Established Member

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    Who said anything about a meltdown? We both know it's not necessary to have a meltdown to show that you care.
     
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  16. Revvv

    Revvv Infinity Poster Established Member

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    Life begins at conception. You have life as those two cells begin to develop and split. That is a living child.

    Are single cell organisms living? Yes they are.

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  17. Revvv

    Revvv Infinity Poster Established Member

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    You guys are on your own for a few hours. I have to get ready to head out and endure the start of a birthday and graduation celebration weekend.

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  18. TK1299

    TK1299 Get on the banned wagon Premium Member Established Member

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    Ok, are scientist creating embryos just to kill them? Or are they simply not useable because another has began the transformation? I do not know enough about creating embryos in a lab to go any further with that topic.

    Holy hell man, two different things. We are talking unborn, innocent children versus adults who made poor decisions and are facing the consequences of such actions. By your argument then abortion is capital punishment, for the innocent.
     
  19. Klaus

    Klaus Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

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    Except only a fraction of fertilized eggs are actually implanted in the uterus. By your definition a "living baby" is something in which the majority of instances have no hope of actually becoming a human baby.

    Additionally, your definition implies that IVF is the murder of a human baby since it results in the destruction of embryos. In fact more embryos are destroyed in this manner than through abortion.

    Your position seems confusing and contradictory.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  20. Klaus

    Klaus Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

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    Yes.

    Innocence of man made laws or lack thereof has nothing to do with the value of "life."
     
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