I want 500 HP but need help

moh.2050

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i want my 88 LX to have the strongest small block possible. what small block should i get so my car can have the most power in a small block possible. i want it to be a small block because big blocks are just too heavy and i want to make my car handle

What are my choices and costs for getting 500 HP? Thanks

also should i get

Trick Flow Twisted Wedge Heads
E303 Cam
Cobra Intake
Exhuast 2.5" - Headers, H-pipe, Mufflers
4.10 Gears


or

this one
Paxton 1001831SLP Paxton Novi SL Superchargers

does it add 275 horsepower or was that the total HP ??
 

chucknorris289

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You'll have to at the very least run a good H/C/I package with a blower/turbo/nitrous. Normal HCI 5.0s using the stock bottom end will make close to 300 at the wheels, plus a blower like an s trim or novi 1000 with 10-12 lbs of boost will put you at 450-500 rwhp.

That's the easiest/most taken way to get there.

The 275 rwhp rating is what a stock 5.0 will make with just the blower.
 

truebluedevil02

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First off, do a little research, it goes a LONG ways. 2nd by your post im guessing you dont know a lot about making power since your post is SOOOO ambiguous that I could make this post 15 pages long without problem. 3rd and probably most importantly WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET? 4th CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE, pick 2. 5th It completely depends on what you want. Do you want 500BHP or 500WHP? That is about a 60-80hp difference so which is it. 6th do you want NA power, turbo power, of supercharged power. Each set up acts COMPLETELY differently. NA is a lot more simple to work on as there is less junk in the way. Turbo makes the most power per PSI but adds the most weight, parts, tubing, and suspension mods. A supercharger is cheaper than a turbo and similar to NA in price but you still have extra junk in the engine bay to work around plus with turbos and superchargers you will need extra gauges to monitor boost, etc.

The set up I have makes 510BHP (hp at the motor, 429WHP). If you want 500WHP NA then take a 351W stroke it to 408(like mine) 427, GOOD heads, AFR 205's or 225's, good size properly chosen cam, good intake, lose the smog and mechanical water pump for an electric water pump and you'll be looking at a 500whp that will run for a long time at around 10.5/1 static comp ratio. 500hp on a stock 302 will risk splitting the block, a 351W block can hold over 700hp on the "weak" model years and up to 1000WHP on the years between 1969-1974. Unless you go with a race block from Man-O-War or Dart there is no 302 block that will RELIABLY hold 500whp except a 69-74 "Mexican" 302 that is properly built. A dart 302 bare block is about $1600 by itself.

If you just want 500BHP then take a stock 302, put a good turbo kit on it, run 10ish psi and there ya go, it WILL blow eventually though so a smart person will make sure there saving for a built motor once that happens. You could also go the HCI and small blower route like mentioned above and get the same result, the HCI setup will be more over all work and cost roughly the same as a basic turbo kit. Like I said, I could go on and on and on and on. My car at sea level will run high 10's in the 1/4 and can be driven on the street but it scares children at lights, wakes the neighbors, etc. a supercharged/turbo car can act and drive like a bone stock car until you get into boost. Either way be ready to spend AT LEAST $6000 to do it RIGHT and thats with you doing most of the labor. You also need to consider that the stock T5 wont hold 500hp for long, the stock clutch wont hold 500 at all and the rear end wont like the power either. Good luck with your choice.
 
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bigfoxbodyfan

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i also want this for the fox i'm bout to start building. my plan was to bore mine out to a 308, z303 cam, gt40x heads, bbk cai, manifold, and 70mm tb, bbk longtubes and x pipe, and flowmaster tips. i also plan on sticking a procharger on it pushing between 8-12 psi and maybe a tiny shot of juice. i guess what i wanna make sure of is will it hold? or should i step up the the 351? cause i wanna be able to maintain daily drivability, but be able to go out and kick tail on the weekends. id appreciate help and knowledge where ever, i just wanna know before i start going and buying stuff
 

truebluedevil02

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i also want this for the fox i'm bout to start building. my plan was to bore mine out to a 308, z303 cam, gt40x heads, bbk cai, manifold, and 70mm tb, bbk longtubes and x pipe, and flowmaster tips. i also plan on sticking a procharger on it pushing between 8-12 psi and maybe a tiny shot of juice. i guess what i wanna make sure of is will it hold? or should i step up the the 351? cause i wanna be able to maintain daily drivability, but be able to go out and kick tail on the weekends. id appreciate help and knowledge where ever, i just wanna know before i start going and buying stuff

Do you want 500bhp or whp? Like I said in my post above 500hp WILL crack a stock 302 block sooner or later, and there is a BIG difference between 500bhp and 500whp. 500WHP is around 575BHP. In which case your stock 302 block WILL go bye bye very soon. Your better off dropping a 351W with forged pistons in it. The stock crank and football rods of a 351W will hold over 600hp provided you keep the RPMs under 6K (most stay around 5500). All you need for the swap iirc is a new oil pan, 5.8L lower intake manifold, cowl hood (or Kmember spacers), and I think a different bell housing but dont quote me on the bell housing.

The set up you listed SHOULD get you 500-525bhp. Your limiting factor are the cheap GT40 heads. Provided you have the block main supported and girdled then at 500bhp and a GOOD tune I would think if you keep the revs down to it would last a while.

I am in the process of building my new fox to about the same level as you. I'm sticking with a production 302 BUT its from 1971. From 69-74 302's and 351's were made with thicker main webbing and there for can take a good amount more abuse. Its has always been up in the air as to what the "safe" limit of a Mexican 302 block is but I have seen them survive over 700whp before. I personally consider around 550whp to be the "safe" limit of one of these blocks to keep full reliability with a moderate amount of abuse. As such my set up will be as follows.
71' 302 block bored to 306ci (keeping as much meat in the block as possible)
scat forged rotating assembly
9:1 forged pistons
main support system
valley girdle (not NEEDED but just for that little extra support)
roush aluminum heads
F cam
world class T5
Spec stage 2 clutch
Edelbrock Victor EFI intake
BBK 70mm TB
42lb injectors
3.27 rear gears
on3 performance turbo kit with a MP 70mm turbo
My goal is for a SOLID and completely reliable 500WHP on pump gas(14ish psi) and around 575-600whp on pump gas+meth @ 18-20psi. I want to be able to drive the car to my home town (4hrs away), beat up on my old street racing buddies for a weekend and then drive it back.
 
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bigfoxbodyfan

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Do you want 500bhp or whp? Like I said in my post above 500hp WILL crack a stock 302 block sooner or later, and there is a BIG difference between 500bhp and 500whp. 500WHP is around 575BHP. In which case your stock 302 block WILL go bye bye very soon. Your better off dropping a 351W with forged pistons in it. The stock crank and football rods of a 351W will hold over 600hp provided you keep the RPMs under 6K (most stay around 5500). All you need for the swap iirc is a new oil pan, 5.8L lower intake manifold, cowl hood (or Kmember spacers), and I think a different bell housing but dont quote me on the bell housing.

The set up you listed SHOULD get you 500-525bhp. Your limiting factor are the cheap GT40 heads. Provided you have the block main supported and girdled then at 500bhp and a GOOD tune I would think if you keep the revs down to it would last a while.

I am in the process of building my new fox to about the same level as you. I'm sticking with a production 302 BUT its from 1971. From 69-74 302's and 351's were made with thicker main webbing and there for can take a good amount more abuse. Its has always been up in the air as to what the "safe" limit of a Mexican 302 block is but I have seen them survive over 700whp before. I personally consider around 550whp to be the "safe" limit of one of these blocks to keep full reliability with a moderate amount of abuse. As such my set up will be as follows.
71' 302 block bored to 306ci (keeping as much meat in the block as possible)
scat forged rotating assembly
9:1 forged pistons
main support system
valley girdle (not NEEDED but just for that little extra support)
roush aluminum heads
F cam
world class T5
Spec stage 2 clutch
Edelbrock Victor EFI intake
BBK 70mm TB
42lb injectors
3.27 rear gears
on3 performance turbo kit with a MP 70mm turbo
My goal is for a SOLID and completely reliable 500WHP on pump gas(14ish psi) and around 575-600whp on pump gas+meth @ 18-20psi. I want to be able to drive the car to my home town (4hrs away), beat up on my old street racing buddies for a weekend and then drive it back.

Yea you and me are thinking the same, I just would prefer injection to a carb for one. I'm also thinking about maybe not using forced induction for awhile and just run full bolt ons with a cam and juice. My goal would be to dip it into the 11 second range :rockon:, I've seen simple things on a fox and they go 11 or less. Could I reach that without the blower and what heads would you recommend over the gt40 heads? I know those are really commonly used.
 

truebluedevil02

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Yea you and me are thinking the same, I just would prefer injection to a carb for one. I'm also thinking about maybe not using forced induction for awhile and just run full bolt ons with a cam and juice. My goal would be to dip it into the 11 second range :rockon:, I've seen simple things on a fox and they go 11 or less. Could I reach that without the blower and what heads would you recommend over the gt40 heads? I know those are really commonly used.

My car will be fuel injected also. As for heads, honestly anything is better than GT40 heads, lol. Sad to say but its true. AFR 165s out flow them, as well as roush 200's, Edelbrock Victor Jr's, and basically any other aftermarket head out there. I would definitely go with some AFR185's or victor jrs. for a bolt on style street car. No sense going bigger than that but you'll have to be careful with a cam with heads that big as the valves will want to say hello to the pistons if there is to much lift. They say the smaller valves on the AFR 165's work well with a decent size cam on a stock motor so you may look into that. There about $1200 a set. As far as 1/4 times go from my personal experience It takes about 350-375WHP for a full weight fox to run consistent 11's with a stick and solid driver. My last coupe was 340whp with an auto and 4:11's and was running 11.7's@118mph consistently on 10" slicks off the foot brake, and with my fat ass in it it was right at 3200lbs (just for reference). You should have no issues getting 280-300whp with a good flowing H/C/I/E setup and that should get you in the mid/high 12's, toss on a 75-100 shot and you'll have 11's no prob.

This site will be your friend
Ford Head Flow Data and Specs
 

bigfoxbodyfan

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My car will be fuel injected also. As for heads, honestly anything is better than GT40 heads, lol. Sad to say but its true. AFR 165s out flow them, as well as roush 200's, Edelbrock Victor Jr's, and basically any other aftermarket head out there. I would definitely go with some AFR185's or victor jrs. for a bolt on style street car. No sense going bigger than that but you'll have to be careful with a cam with heads that big as the valves will want to say hello to the pistons if there is to much lift. They say the smaller valves on the AFR 165's work well with a decent size cam on a stock motor so you may look into that. There about $1200 a set. As far as 1/4 times go from my personal experience It takes about 350-375WHP for a full weight fox to run consistent 11's with a stick and solid driver. My last coupe was 340whp with an auto and 4:11's and was running 11.7's@118mph consistently on 10" slicks off the foot brake, and with my fat ass in it it was right at 3200lbs (just for reference). You should have no issues getting 280-300whp with a good flowing H/C/I/E setup and that should get you in the mid/high 12's, toss on a 75-100 shot and you'll have 11's no prob.

This site will be your friend
Ford Head Flow Data and Specs

Heck yea then! I guess I'll just stick with full n/a then. Cause I so plan on going stick, I know I'll need either a rebuilt tranny or I'm thinking the tko600 tranny cause I know the stock ones won't hold up to much more power before they go. And I'm planning on going with 3.73's I think for rear gears that way I can haul some ass in both aspects (street and strip) and that's about how big a shot of juice I was wanting. The biggest I woulda went was maybe 150 but I figured things woulda popped under that.

The heads will be my biggest issue, like I said I plan to run a z303 cam in there and I got the specs on it but I'm not sure what heads would work best with it. I may start off with the heads u had mentioned then and just go from there and see what happens. Lol here's to hoping our shut holds up :beer:
 

truebluedevil02

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Heck yea then! I guess I'll just stick with full n/a then. Cause I so plan on going stick, I know I'll need either a rebuilt tranny or I'm thinking the tko600 tranny cause I know the stock ones won't hold up to much more power before they go. And I'm planning on going with 3.73's I think for rear gears that way I can haul some ass in both aspects (street and strip) and that's about how big a shot of juice I was wanting. The biggest I woulda went was maybe 150 but I figured things woulda popped under that.

The heads will be my biggest issue, like I said I plan to run a z303 cam in there and I got the specs on it but I'm not sure what heads would work best with it. I may start off with the heads u had mentioned then and just go from there and see what happens. Lol here's to hoping our shut holds up :beer:

I THINK (read up and dont quote me on this) that you can run a .550 lift cam with AFR 165's and still clear the valves. But if you with a 185 head like the AFR's or Victor jrs you have to keep the cam pretty small.

3.73's will get you 120mph@6000rpm in 4th gear on your average 17" wheel and tire set up(25" tall). Thats about perfect for your mid 11 sec street strip car. That will let you max out your RPM's at the track without having to rev to high or shift right before the line. Id say thats a great gear choice. My car has 4.10's and its just to steep, ill be going with either 3.27's or 3.55's depending on how tall my new tires will be. But ill also be turbo and the car may never see the track. I'm gearing it for 40-140 highway pulls:beer:
 

bigfoxbodyfan

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I THINK (read up and dont quote me on this) that you can run a .550 lift cam with AFR 165's and still clear the valves. But if you with a 185 head like the AFR's or Victor jrs you have to keep the cam pretty small.

3.73's will get you 120mph@6000rpm in 4th gear on your average 17" wheel and tire set up(25" tall). Thats about perfect for your mid 11 sec street strip car. That will let you max out your RPM's at the track without having to rev to high or shift right before the line. Id say thats a great gear choice. My car has 4.10's and its just to steep, ill be going with either 3.27's or 3.55's depending on how tall my new tires will be. But ill also be turbo and the car may never see the track. I'm gearing it for 40-140 highway pulls:beer:

Sweet! I think the lift on the z303 is exactly that. So I guess like I Sao I'll try this an see what we get. Yea I got the 3.73 idea from mm&ff mag and the dude that asked about it was doing the basic idea I have. Cause I wanna kick ass at the track, but I also (and more than likely) will be running the 40-140 runs as well which should put me right close to redline with those gears if I'm not mistaken....I prolly will actually run 18's with lower pro tires (I'm thinking nittos :) ) and running like 15 inches for the slicks when I go to the track (prolly run mt's fats and skinnies) I'm not sure though cause I want some bi brakes to make sure the damn thing stops when I need it too. Lol for me I'm learning now, alot of my problems seem like it's going to come down to clearances....but I'm hoping to have a pretty beastly Lil street rod when I get done with her
 

truebluedevil02

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Sweet! I think the lift on the z303 is exactly that. So I guess like I Sao I'll try this an see what we get. Yea I got the 3.73 idea from mm&ff mag and the dude that asked about it was doing the basic idea I have. Cause I wanna kick ass at the track, but I also (and more than likely) will be running the 40-140 runs as well which should put me right close to redline with those gears if I'm not mistaken....I prolly will actually run 18's with lower pro tires (I'm thinking nittos :) ) and running like 15 inches for the slicks when I go to the track (prolly run mt's fats and skinnies) I'm not sure though cause I want some bi brakes to make sure the damn thing stops when I need it too. Lol for me I'm learning now, alot of my problems seem like it's going to come down to clearances....but I'm hoping to have a pretty beastly Lil street rod when I get done with her

it all depends on high fast you want to spin the motor. at 6K red line you'll be right around 120 in 4th, if you want to run up to 140 without running to 7K you'll need something more like a 3.55 on a 26" tall tire.
 

bigfoxbodyfan

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it all depends on high fast you want to spin the motor. at 6K red line you'll be right around 120 in 4th, if you want to run up to 140 without running to 7K you'll need something more like a 3.55 on a 26" tall tire.

Yea I don't wanna spin it all that hard, I was saying I could hit 140 prolly by topping out 5th. Im sure I'll be bouncing it off the redline if I was in 4th doing 140 lol
 

truebluedevil02

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Yea I don't wanna spin it all that hard, I was saying I could hit 140 prolly by topping out 5th. Im sure I'll be bouncing it off the redline if I was in 4th doing 140 lol

5th will do well over 160 even with my 4.10's, but for racing you want to keep it out of over drive, hence the gearing at the top of 4th. 4th gear in a 5spd is almost always a 1:1 gear ratio. 5th gear is VERY long for highway and MPG and WAY to long for racing. So whatever you want your racing top speed to be, you need to calculate your gear ratio to be able to hit that speed in 4th or whatever gear your 1:1 ratio is.
 

bigfoxbodyfan

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5th will do well over 160 even with my 4.10's, but for racing you want to keep it out of over drive, hence the gearing at the top of 4th. 4th gear in a 5spd is almost always a 1:1 gear ratio. 5th gear is VERY long for highway and MPG and WAY to long for racing. So whatever you want your racing top speed to be, you need to calculate your gear ratio to be able to hit that speed in 4th or whatever gear your 1:1 ratio is.

Ah ok, I got ya. So I'll just stick to the 3.73's then cause I'm wanting to top out at around 140 for the road races like you said. So long as I can still do like 160 if I want to on those REEEEEALLY long stretches of road then I'm happy :)
 

fastfox1988

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If you want a reliable engine with 500hp. i would go with a stroker a 351w block stroked to a 408 or bigger depending on how much you want to spend. i just bought a 408 w from keithcraft performance engines and i am extremely pleased with it 580 to the flywheel so that might be something to look into. a ls is another good rout eto go.you can pick one up for around $700, then you can twin turbo it and have around 800-1000hp depending on the turbo size and cubic inch.
 
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