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Help with a tune

Discussion in '2013-14 Shelby GT500' started by Dragfan, May 6, 2021.

  1. Dragfan

    Dragfan Member Established Member

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    Mar 13, 2021
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    TN.
    I am looking for some advice from some of you that has done this. I am wanting to add a FP
    TB 65mm to my car. It's 2014 GT500, 3000 mi, I've had it couple of months. The previous
    owner installed JLT CIA, upper pulley and a tune. Let me say I don't know a lot about tunes
    [ just what I've been reading ], never bought one for Mustang. I understand the mechanics
    of the engine [ raced with twice the HP ], but it was with Carburetors. Tunes and super chargers are new to me.

    I'm not sure what to do if anything. The tune that's in it I don;t know much about. I was giving a SCT X4 WITH THE CAR, and the name of the place that did it. I called and gave the VIN and was told he had no info on record but it was a custom tune. Sooo maybe it's great or not, car seems to run ok, but I have not driven another so I have nothing to compare it to. From what I've read if I change the TB I'll need to do a change with the tune. If that's true what do you think I should do, go back to him or maybe go with another company, if I go with someone else would I still be able to use the SCT x4 I have now? I don't know what's or who's tune is compatible with it. If I understand, the SCT comes with a tune? Don't know how that works if they just add to it, change it, or don't use any of the tune that comes with it.

    I know there's not a lot to gain from the TB, what I've read 20-25 HP. I'm just tinkering. lol
    Also is there anything really to be gained by changing the elbow? Sorry for the long post.
     
  2. 97svt/01saleen

    97svt/01saleen Member Established Member

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    Not sure where in Tenn you are from, but since you really have info on the current tune in the car, I would take it to someone reputable and put it on the dyno to make sure everything checks out, even if you weren't going to change the TB. I just went thru this not too long ago. I bought a 14" GT500 that had a tune in it with LT, full 3" exhaust, 2.4 pulley, and Steeda 130 CAI. My plan was to get the tune checked on a dyno since I knew nothing about who had done the tune. I went ahead, since I was making the trip, and bought the FP Twin 65mm TB and the BPS elbow for the re-tune. I was also given, at time of purchase, the SCT handheld device. I took the vehicle to Pro Dyno and I highly recommend them! The were awesome and the car drives awesome. While it was there I also had some suspension pieces added.

    Pro Dyno is in Ft. Mill SC and if you aren't sure who to go to and are close enough, or willing to make the drive (you have invested a lot of money just by buying the car, it is worth making sure the tune is good) I would highly suggest giving Pro Dyno a call.
     
    Nutty 5.0, 1Kona_Venom and Norton like this.
  3. Norton

    Norton Long-time SVT Enthusiast Established Member

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    +1 for this spot-on advice!

    After adding JLT 127mm CF CAI, CFM Twin Jet 67mm TB, VMP 2.4" Upper, 90mm Idler, BPS Oversized & Ported Plenum/Elbow, NGK TR7-IX plugs, VMP Triple-Pass Dual-Fan H/E, and Reische 170' Tstat, I had my '13 custom dyno tuned by a local shop trusted by many Shelby owners in the this area. One of the reasons I did so is the ~7K ft elevation here - I wanted my tune dialed-in for where I drive the car. Many folks are also happy with mail order processes thru reputable tuners like Venemous, VMP, Lund, etc. I recommend checking with other local Shelby owners and speaking with some of the mail order places, to determine who best meets your need and with whom you're most comfortable.

    All my mods went on at the same time, so I can't say definitively what each one contributed to the end result. Based on what I've read, the 67mm TB is worth ~25HP. (Guessing Ford's 65mm will be very close to that.) My tuner estimated the BPS ported high-flow elbow I installed is worth ~20HP.
    Dyno (vs RPM) STAGE 4 Power Pack.jpeg
     
    Nutty 5.0 and 2011 gtcs like this.
  4. Dragfan

    Dragfan Member Established Member

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    TN.
    Sounds like some good advice. I'm in E. Tn. close to Va. I will have to do some asking around and see if anyone close by can do it, that I'd trust.

    Also sounds like the elbow helps just about as much as the TB does. Thanks good info.
     
    Norton likes this.
  5. Catmonkey

    Catmonkey I Void Warranties! Premium Member Established Member

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    You could install the 65mm without a tune, but it would run better with one. Not really WOT, but off idle and part throttle. You might do that for a while before getting a new tune for it, just to get used to it and while considering any other upgrades. Unless you're find a great deal on a used TB, you might consider VMP's 67mm or 69mm throttle bodies. Especially if you're going to tune it anyway. In the meantime, try to figure out if it has a lower thermostat. Your tuner would need to know that for a new tune. Do you know what size pulley is on it?
     
    me32 likes this.
  6. 1Kona_Venom

    1Kona_Venom Glass Roof Mafia Premium Member Established Member Single Barrel Sirs

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    I'm tired, bare with me.
    +1 to Pro Dyno
    I would not do it just for a TB or an Elbow honestly. I would just get the tune checked if possible.

    When Pro Dyno (or most other tuners) tune your car after a previous written tune they are going to delete and re write the tune. No piggy backing. So the cost will be $400-$500.

    The SCT device you have is married to the car, not the shop who did the tune. Meaning, anyone can access and program it

    Think long term what you want to do and being experienced, you should know the adage, "don't Nickle and Dime it"

    Get as much out of that "new tune" fee that you can. Ie, TB, Elbow, Thermostat 170, new plugs, exhaust if need be and GEARS!!!!! 3:73s and mod in bulk
     
  7. Dragfan

    Dragfan Member Established Member

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    Not sure I understand [ not really WOT ]. It's good to know I can put the TB on and run it, will it also be ok to run it if I change elbow also?
    I don't think I would ever do any other mods to it except maybe something to exhaust, like maybe an x-pipe. But I would need to ride in one first to see if I like it.
    I will find out about the thermostat, but I'm sure it's not been changed. Previous owner was very particular and kept ever piece that was changed, plugs and all, but no thermostat, I will ask him.
    The pulley is 2.4. Thanks 034.JPG
     
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  8. svt662

    svt662 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    That’s one Clean engine bay.... Very Nice!
     
  9. Dragfan

    Dragfan Member Established Member

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    TN.
    I like it, and agree. You mentioned gear, I just changed it to a 4.10. With the help of my son we was able to go in with the SCT and change it to a 4.10 and correct the speedometer.
    They did change the plugs when it was tuned. The only other thing I need to figure out if I want an X-pipe. I'm as sure as I can be that I won't be doing any other performance
    mods to the engine. Seems like people have had good service with their cars after doing these mods [ I'm I right thinking that ]? I know anytime you make more power it harder on things,
    but I would like to try and keep it halfway safe. lol Thanks
     
  10. 2011 gtcs

    2011 gtcs GT500 poster Established Member

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    4.10s are great for the 13/14s. Lots of good advice already in this thread. If you're looking to talk to a great GT500 tuner I'll recommend BJ McCarty from Venomous Tuning. He tunes a ton of GT500s and is great to talk to. Here's a link to his website. I'd give him a call go over your goals for the car.
    Venomous Tuning
     
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  11. Dragfan

    Dragfan Member Established Member

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    Thanks for the tip, I'll do that. And I do like them 4.10s
     
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  12. Norton

    Norton Long-time SVT Enthusiast Established Member

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    I can't speak to their 69mm TB, which may be a custom piece, but VMP's 67mm is a branded version of CFM's Twin 67mm Twin Bore Billet TB.

    Jim Cushman sells the CFM unit for $629 and is sometimes able to do a little better. (He was excellent to deal with when I bought mine.)

    VMP sells their branded 67mm TB for $720. (IMO, "VMP" lettering isn't worth the $90 markup.) Their 69mm model is also $720. The question is whether 2mm is worth $90...?
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  13. Dragfan

    Dragfan Member Established Member

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    Thanks
     
  14. Dragfan

    Dragfan Member Established Member

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    I will have to do a little checking and thinking on them. Thanks for the info
     
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  15. biminiLX

    biminiLX never stock Premium Member Established Member

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    Dragfan, glad you’re enjoying the car and making great mods (4.10s and TB).
    First advice, learn how to datalog with your SCT device!
    These cars have dual wideband O2s so they will maintain a commanded A/F ratio.
    As Catmonkey and others mentioned, you don’t really need a tune for just the TB, but it should help part throttle and driveability.
    My advice, take your son out for a datalogging drive and assess the current tune.
    Then add the TB and drive the car for a bit and then datalog again.
    Before you spend good money (that could be used for mods) to change a potentially good tune, I’d check your current tune and then make a good mod list (we can help). Once you know what you want to achieve and the best mods for that goal, if that requires a tune then best to install the mods and retune all at once.
    Last, hows your car run now?
    If it runs good (and trap speed is on point if you race) then I’m guessing your tune is good.
    -J
     
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  16. Catmonkey

    Catmonkey I Void Warranties! Premium Member Established Member

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    Generally the the bigger the throttle body, the more power you'll make, even if it's at the peak. If you're buying new, these TBs go on sale a few times a year. If you can save a few coins, great. I have no issues with that. I'm sure they also pop up used from time to time too. My 67mm is 8 years old, so they've been around a while.

    Is 2mm worth $90 to me? I would say yes and it's really 2mm times 2. For me, I've owned a 67mm for 8 years now, so upgrading would cost more than $90. I already have a now discontinued 72mm on the shelf I want to tackle tuning next, regardless. In terms of throttle area, the 67mm is 6% larger than the 65mm. The 69mm is another 6% larger than the 67mm. You could be looking at a 75 to 100 cfm increase over each size increment, or 150 to 200 cfm with the 69mm over the 65mm.

    I believe VMP was looking to manufacture the largest dual throttle body they could make that the OEM motor could still reliably operate and control. Not having run one, I don't know if it has any quirks from a tuning perspective. It just seems like the logical choice to me, if I were shopping throttle bodies today. For all I know the 69mm may not clear the stock elbow. OP would need to research that aspect.
     
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  17. 1 Alibi 2

    1 Alibi 2 If not today, when ?????? Established Member SVTP OG 4 Life

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    Something seems off, based on your statements:
    .
    " I was giving a SCT X4 WITH THE CAR, and the name of the place that did it. I called and gave the VIN and was told he had no info on record but it was a custom tune. "
    .
    " Previous owner was very particular and kept ever piece that was changed, plugs and all, but no thermostat, I will ask him. "
    .
    .........................If it were me, I wouldn't do anything till I got the tune issue figured out !!
     
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  18. Norton

    Norton Long-time SVT Enthusiast Established Member

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    I can't argue with any of that. My points were simply that there's a more cost effective 67mm TB option and that going to a 69mm woud cost ~$90 more. IMO, either of these is preferable to FRPP's ~$675 65mm TB.
     
  19. Dragfan

    Dragfan Member Established Member

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    This sounds like good info. I don't know anything about datalogging, but I will get with my son and figure it out. He's good with computers [ that's he's job ] so that may help. Just a good reason to go for a drive. lol
    As for mods to it like I said it has JLT cai, 2.4 pulley and the tune. My plans is to add the TB and elbow. I think that's all I'm going to change except maybe x-pipe, I know I need to decide on it before or if I get a new tune.
    The car seems to run good to me. I have not had the chance to take it to the track [ not sure if Bristol has opened, or going to ], would like to have some tires before I go. I know I would never get it to leave with street tires,
    but I could maybe get a trap speed. I'll look into that. I have not drove another one, so just driving on the street I don't think I could say if it's got 650 or 750 HP.
    So probably silly question, when you say [ I'd check your current tune ] check how? Are you talking about checking the trap speed? Thanks
     
  20. Dragfan

    Dragfan Member Established Member

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    I'm sure I didn't explain it right. When I called him he knew the previous owner, when I asked about the tune he said he should have given me a Dyno sheet with it. After talking more we realized we was talking about to different Mustangs [ It had been about 3 yrs when it was done]. But he said that he did remember he had done a custom tune for it, and if I would send him the vin he would see if he could find any info. But he called back and said he did not find anything. So that's all I know.

    On the other I think you are referring to the [ but no thermostat ]. Earlier in the post I said [ I'm sure it hasn't been changed ], and I said that because I didn't get an old thermostat [ he seemed to have kept everything ].
    But I just asked him and he conformed it has not been changed. Thanks
     

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