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Heat Exchanger Advice Please...

Discussion in 'Power-Adders' started by crjackson2134, May 16, 2020.

  1. crjackson2134

    crjackson2134 Active Member Established Member

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    Yesterday I purchased a Roush Phase 3 675 Kit, Ford Performance Radiator, GT500 7-blade cooling fan, 170º Reische Thermostat, OPG/CG, Catch-can, Dyno-Tune and install for my 2014 GT Track-pack.

    I intended to get this Department Of Boost Super Single - Red Heat Exchanger. The problem is that it's not available for many weeks out, and my install appointment is set for 2 weeks from now. I can't wait for 6-12 weeks for them to ship if I pay and get on a waiting list now.

    I'm disabled, so I have to pay labor for a shop install. For that reason, I want to install everything at once . It will save me hundreds or more on labor costs.

    Since I can't have the one (HE) that I really wanted, what HE (without fans) is the best I can get in that price range?

    I was thinking of the VMP Triple Pass w/o fans, but I'm new to this so some experienced guidance is appreciated. I need to make a decision really quick.

    Thanks for you help.
     
  2. Thorpz

    Thorpz Well-Known Member Premium Member Established Member

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    The Roush phase 3 675 kit comes with a heat exchanger why do you feel you need a different one would be my question.
     
  3. crjackson2134

    crjackson2134 Active Member Established Member

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    Because it’s really small, and everyone I’ve talked to in my area and at the local Roush dealership recommended to upgrade it at install. The dealer wasn’t allowed to recommend any specific brand, the just said to upgrade it.

    My installer/tuner suggested the same, so I want advice from people who aren’t biased or trying to sell me their products.

    image001.png
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
  4. Icebroker

    Icebroker New Member

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    I'm driving the VMP H/E w/o the fans for about 4 weeks. City, highway, rain & sun. The IATs are ok, never got over 120 °F. But we never got over 77 °F, so I guess that'll change with rising temps. I am driving a bone stock gen1 coyote with the VMP Gen2R, JLT CAI, OPGs and 79mm pulley.
    Is it a daily? Do you race it? Is it only for sunday drives? It also depends on your application I guess...
     
  5. crjackson2134

    crjackson2134 Active Member Established Member

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    It’s a daily driver, and it gets really hot in the summer here.

    I can’t find the VMP w/o fans. Did you remove them or are they for sale like that some place.
     
  6. VMP Performance

    VMP Performance Authorized Vendor Authorized Vendor

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    VMP Non-fan Triple-pass Heat Exchanger
     
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  7. crjackson2134

    crjackson2134 Active Member Established Member

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    Thanks for that. Looks like my search of the site just sucks. That’s what I was looking for.

    Is that a step up, a step down, or on par with AFCO and Fluidyne?

    I just received recommendations for those in my email inbox.
     
  8. VMP Performance

    VMP Performance Authorized Vendor Authorized Vendor

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    It is manufactured for us by AFCO

    And it's probably not your searching ability, but rather our website's fault. It can be finicky
     
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  9. Riddick

    Riddick MERICA Established Member

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    Go with the Afco unit from VMP, these blowers need all the help they can get with keeping cool.

    Do you plan on running the Roush tune, if you are getting a custom Dyno tune I'd recommend a twin 67 or twin 69 throttle body. Good for 20-30 hp.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
     
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  10. crjackson2134

    crjackson2134 Active Member Established Member

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    It’s going to be a custom tune, I’m not sure what throttle body comes with the kit.

    It’s a 675 Kit,but apparently makes about 50 HP more with the install/tune I’m getting.
     
  11. Riddick

    Riddick MERICA Established Member

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    Kit comes with a Twin 60mm throttle body, same throttle body that came stock on gt500s

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
     
  12. crjackson2134

    crjackson2134 Active Member Established Member

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    I assume I’d have to purchase that separately. That will make it an upgrade for the future. I’ll have to recover financially from the install befor going that route.
     
  13. crjackson2134

    crjackson2134 Active Member Established Member

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    So it seems that there is very little opinions on this subject. I’ll make another visit to the shop prior to install to discuss the VMP Fanless Heat Exchanger vs any other options. I sent an email with some detailed questions, but the only reply was - we sell AFCO and Fluidye. It’s a very busy/hectic place and I understand the brevity of the email vs a longer communication trying to explain to noob like me.

    I’m surprised no one has even mentioned the merits, or lack there of, regarding the D.O.B. Heat Exchanger.

    Sometimes you just have to go in person to get a personal answer I suppose.

    I definitely will consider the Throttle body for a future upgrade. Right now, I’m starting from scratch, and having already paid for the parts (except for the upgraded HE), I have what I have.
     
  14. Riddick

    Riddick MERICA Established Member

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    What exactly are you wanting to know? The triple pass vmp unit is proven and works great. Do a search for gt500 vmp heat exchanger and that should yield some good results. The stock unit on gt500s is a single pass unit and when people upgrade to the VMP it makes a huge difference. There should be plenty of topics, videos, and forum posts out there to back up this claim.

    I will not discredit DOB but go to any local track or shop and see what products the big hp guys are using. I have a hard time believing the single pass DOB exchanger will outperform a triple pass unit. Just giving you my opinion.

    If that's the response you received from VMP that's sad. I'd give them a call, ask to speak to someone who actually has knowledge on these.

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
     
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  15. Handlebar Moustache

    Handlebar Moustache Well-Known Member Established Member

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    The number of passes is not a deciding factor in Hx performance. It seems to be more of a marketing tool than anything. DoB has all the tech info you need to know on his site.

    Properly outfitted, the super single will perform better than everything else on the S197 market except the titanic triple. The DoB units emphasize core volume (without being too thick), frontal area, large port size, and the ability to move the piece significantly rearward off the bumper bar so air can flow through the core more efficiently. Water speed will be your limiting factor with respect to IAT2s after you get a healthy aftermarket unit installed. I’d wait for the unit I really wanted if I were you. If you really can’t wait, get the VMP unit or equivalent.


    Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
     
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  16. crjackson2134

    crjackson2134 Active Member Established Member

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    What I’m trying to find out, is if I should stay with the stock unit that comes with the kit, until a DOB unit can be had

    -OR-

    go ahead and get something like the VMP triple pass unit (or something else) to be used at initial install, and call it day.


    Okay, I’ll do that.

    Excellent! Exactly the kind of information I wanted.


    Thanks, at least I know it’s a well respected HE, and certainly better than the run of the mill. I’ll probably go with this one.

    Thanks... I’ll be calling them.
     
  17. crjackson2134

    crjackson2134 Active Member Established Member

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    Thanks for posting. I just don’t know if the difference between the VMP and the Super Single are so dramatic that the DOB unit is worth waiting for.

    I’m scheduled for install in 2 weeks. I can’t get a a Super Single for a very long period past the install date, so I have to either stick with the standard Roush unit (included in the kit) and wait a long time for the DOB HE, then pay labor AGAIN to replace the Roush unit. Or just get the VMP.

    If I shell-out for a VMP HE, I certainly won’t be buying yet a third HE (from DOB) to replace it (unless the VMP is drastically disappointing, and it doesn’t sound like it is).

    Also, what do you mean by properly outfitted?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
  18. Handlebar Moustache

    Handlebar Moustache Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I think the super single can accept 1” lines. That said, I believe the VMP can as well. So I guess when I say properly outfitted I mean that it is set up to move lots of water. A big nasty pump and intercooler lines that aren’t necked down too much. I don’t think either unit will be a bad choice. I think the super single would just give you a bit more room to grow.
     
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  19. Riddick

    Riddick MERICA Established Member

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    Any heat exchanger will be an upgrade from the Roush unit. What size pulley are you planning on running, im guessing either a 82mm or 79mm. With either of those you are not really spinning the blower hard so you are not generating that much heat to begin with.

    The only data I can provide you is from my VMP heat exchanger. I recently did a pull in third gear from 2k RPM all the way up to 7800. At the start of the pull my IATs were 113 according to my log. At the top when I let out they were at 89 degrees. They dropped throughout the entire pull until 6900 and then they leveled off at 89 degrees. This was with ambient temperature around 80 degrees. If I were to do a long extended pull the IATs would rise, I am just trying to provide you real world factual data.

    Here is some data from a part throttle / idle log. I did a very slow pull in third gear from 1200 up to 5k and then the car sat and idled for about 4 minutes. Beginning of pull IATs were 118, after pull and idling my temps rose to 129. This is a great simulation of what you will see when driving around town. Once I am moving the temps drop very quickly which is what you want to look for. The faster your temps recover show how efficient your HE is.

    There is a huge debate on fanned vs no fans. It all comes down to what you use your car for. If you are into road racing then do not go get fans. If you drive in stop and go traffic or are into drag racing, fans are great to have. I have my pump and fans wired to a switch so I control them, I am not a fan of the pump and fans running continously. The only time I use my fans is when I'm in traffic or after a 1/4 mile pass and I'm trying to cool the car off. What I have noticed through my datalogs is that while idling with the fans on the IATs still rise but at a much slower rate when I have fans running. I have not conducted any test with my fans off the car but I can tell you my temps drop fast when im moving.

    Another item to consider for lowering IATs is an ice tank or bigger coolant reservoir. The more volume of liquid you have the longer it will take to heat up. I chose to go with the VMP underhood tank which holds quite a bit more fluid than the stocker and looks way better in the engine bay. You do not have to run ice to see the full benefit, the additional coolant in the tank will help keep your IATs lower.
     
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  20. VMP Performance

    VMP Performance Authorized Vendor Authorized Vendor

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    Just passing through to let you know we are running a sale on the heat exchangers for Memorial Day.
    Give us a shout, happy to take care of you!
     

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