Well. I consider myself very experienced and adept with the clutch cable assemblies on Mustangs, but as always there's always something new to learn. I post this because many of us have hard disengagement issues and I wanted to help bring this to attention. Recently after a cable replacement my clutch disengagement became more difficult as the rpm's increased. Higher RPM=NO DISENGAGEMENT. Traditionally I would think that the clutch must not be depressing entirely and I would simply adjust the cable tighter. Well, I chased the problem for 2 weeks, and realized yesterday in doing some online research that it is common to overload the assembly (cable, throwout fork/bearing and clutch fingers) with too much preload tension. Even if your tob doesn't seem to be riding the clutch fingers, you are still inhibiting the clutch fingers from performing properly when you depress them further than they are supposed to be depressed. Seems obvious, but I didn't think it was possible to overly depress the clutch fingers . Tomorrow I will back my cable off and readjust. If anyone has more info about this OVER CENTERING or OVER TRAVELING condition please chime in. Thanks.
Hard Shifting. Clutch Not disengaging. Problem solved.
- Thread starter skratpiece
- Start date
Why is it that the last 3 posts that I've made regarding extremely important advanced clutch theory nobody seems to have anything to say?
By overtightening the cable, you are not allowing the clutch to engage properly when the pedal is all the way up. This will lead to early clutch failure becase the disk can spin (at a different speed than the flywheel) even when the pedal is all the way up.
I suggest that you start with the car on good jack stands, engine idling in neutral and inspection cover at the clutch arm is off. Adjust the cable until the TOB stops spinning (easy to tell with a flashlight). I have the LDC Freeplay Spring, so if there is enough slack in the cable, the spring will push the clutch arm (and TOB) towards the back of the car. Without the freeplay spring, you may have to help push it towards the back.
I preger to leave mine not spinning at this point. Mine is adjusted until it just stops and no more. However some prefer to have a preload. If you do, then tighten your cable (firewall adjuster out towards the valve cover) until it spins up. That should be perfect. Forget about a certain number of pounds of preload because you won't be able to hit that number without some precise measuring equipment.
An alternate way, is to test the deflection at the cable up under the dash. Adjust until the cable will move sideways (or up down) with light pressure with a finger. That will put the TOB just slightly away from the pressure plate fingers. Then tighten until there is no deflection with light pressure. That will put a preload on the TOB. The more finger pressure to deflect the cable, the higher the preload.
You can also do this in a parking lot with the hood up and engine running by looking for where the pedal engages when you let out in first gear. Tighter means the cable engages closer to the floor. Looser means it engages higher. Adjust it to where it feels most comfortable. For most people it will engage about halfway up (but not any higher than that). Some who race like it to engage (or disengage) close to the top. However, this risks the overtightening you mentioned.
A "QR" type of quadrant can exacerbate this, so be careful.
I suggest that you start with the car on good jack stands, engine idling in neutral and inspection cover at the clutch arm is off. Adjust the cable until the TOB stops spinning (easy to tell with a flashlight). I have the LDC Freeplay Spring, so if there is enough slack in the cable, the spring will push the clutch arm (and TOB) towards the back of the car. Without the freeplay spring, you may have to help push it towards the back.
I preger to leave mine not spinning at this point. Mine is adjusted until it just stops and no more. However some prefer to have a preload. If you do, then tighten your cable (firewall adjuster out towards the valve cover) until it spins up. That should be perfect. Forget about a certain number of pounds of preload because you won't be able to hit that number without some precise measuring equipment.
An alternate way, is to test the deflection at the cable up under the dash. Adjust until the cable will move sideways (or up down) with light pressure with a finger. That will put the TOB just slightly away from the pressure plate fingers. Then tighten until there is no deflection with light pressure. That will put a preload on the TOB. The more finger pressure to deflect the cable, the higher the preload.
You can also do this in a parking lot with the hood up and engine running by looking for where the pedal engages when you let out in first gear. Tighter means the cable engages closer to the floor. Looser means it engages higher. Adjust it to where it feels most comfortable. For most people it will engage about halfway up (but not any higher than that). Some who race like it to engage (or disengage) close to the top. However, this risks the overtightening you mentioned.
A "QR" type of quadrant can exacerbate this, so be careful.
Apparently I was premature with this post because the issue still remains. Cable too loose= No shifting. Cable appropriately adjusted= extremely hard shifting. Cable overly tightened=good shifting at low rpm, but no disengagement at high rpm.
I know this may sound stupid, but I've read many posts where people with shifting issues like you describe simply changed their fluid and it was like a night & day difference in shifting. When my shifting becauses more difficult like you describe, and I know the cable is properly adjusted, changing the fluid always seems to do the trick. I hope that helps. Good luck.
Hey. I like your suggestion. Appreciate it. I've been relying on my fluid being good, because I use Royal Purple and it was changed with my clutch swap 10K miles ago. I will check it again though asap. Thanks.
It's worth a shot...many people -including me- had great results with Pennzoil Synchromesh...4 bottles should do it.
One thing though, after reading your other thread describing your issues, specifically when you rev it while in gear and the car moves even with the clutch engaged, there may be more going on here...
Yeah. It's a catch 22. I've got so much preload that the bearing rides the clutch fingers, but at the same time, it still won't disengage entirely. I'm leaning towards throwing a new FRPP TOB in it, with a new pivot ball, inspect and retorque everything, top off fluids, install LDC Freeplay mod. I can't spend another $400 on a clutch and flywheel right now, and definitely not paying another dime in labor on this thing. Cost me $1000 in labor alone last year. I am going to check the fluids tmrw.
Sounds like a good plan. I'm sure when you inspect everything, the problem(s) will present itself. Good luck and keep us posted on your result!
I'm hoping when I pull it apart, that I don't find a pressure plate with damage. The fingers may be worn, or bent. Even if they appear undamaged, they may be out of spec. Hopefully not. I know for a fact that a dowel pin, came out because i found it in the clutch basket. I don't think that is a big deal though. All I know, is that it's not disengaging.
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Did you find a fix?
My buddy's 03 is locking him out of gears at high rpms. In other words, during a 2-3 or a 3-4 shift at redline (or close to it) he can get out of the current gear however the next gear will not "allow" him to engage it. I know its a bad idea on parts but he even held the shifter into the next gear to see how long it would take until he it would finally engage and it locked him out for a few seconds (or until the rpms dropped enough) until the shifter slide into the next gear.
He just recently purchased the car so this is all new to us. I was looking over the mod to stock quadrant and cable adjustments but I'm just not sure where to start. The pedal effort seems to be a biotch but I think that is normal for these cars with a stock clutch. However, it does engage fairly close to the floor and not half way.
My buddy's 03 is locking him out of gears at high rpms. In other words, during a 2-3 or a 3-4 shift at redline (or close to it) he can get out of the current gear however the next gear will not "allow" him to engage it. I know its a bad idea on parts but he even held the shifter into the next gear to see how long it would take until he it would finally engage and it locked him out for a few seconds (or until the rpms dropped enough) until the shifter slide into the next gear.
He just recently purchased the car so this is all new to us. I was looking over the mod to stock quadrant and cable adjustments but I'm just not sure where to start. The pedal effort seems to be a biotch but I think that is normal for these cars with a stock clutch. However, it does engage fairly close to the floor and not half way.
Ever find a solution?
Proper adjustment and a good firewall adjuster/quadrant is what's needed. You can put whatever fluid in the trans, it's not going to make a dif how it shifts. There is no night and day dif between this fluid or that fluid. That's all in your head!!! One thing to look at is the quadrant. When you replaced it the factory one, was the ramp rate dif? Probably not, most aftermarket quadrants have the same or very slightly dif ramp rate then stock. So what gain did you get by replacing the stock quadrant? Nothing other then changing the materal that it's made out of.
i called a T56 rebuild shop in texas and he was telling me that the shift forks and keys, and the teeth on gears can wear causing hard shifting. certain gears run on different splines, i have changed my oil 4 or 5 times in a short period, less thn 500 miles and every time it has a metal tint to it, so that was what was wrong with mine, it was acting like a badly adjusted clutch but really it was an internal problem. he charges $680 to rebuild with upgraded parts like billet keys...etc..etc TDP.com
other than billet quadrants dont flex/break and different fluids being synthetic or not will allow the syncros to grab better. i have used synochromesh and its awesome. i have tried the royal purple and didnt like it. just because its twice the price doesnt make it better.
having the same issue and it sucks.
Sent from my SGH-T959
Sent from my SGH-T959
The factory quad is not near as weak as you think. Yes I agree it may bend and twist. They do break over time as well. But aside from all that I'm talking about ramp rate. The ramp rate on the quad has more to do with pedal effort, and the engage and disengagement of the clutch. 99% of aftermarket quads are the same ramp rate as factory. So you need to do your homework and choose wisely on which to get. With trans fluid, yet again I agree to disagree. Your not going to get a night and day dif between two brands of fluid. Yes some may be better the others but no night and day dif is going to be noticed. If your having problems shifting you need to look at the mechanical end. Is the clutch adjust properly? That's the biggest thing. Most cars do not have the clutch adjusted right!
I havce the same problem, "hitting a wall shifting @ high RPM's". What a piss off. Gonna order the MM quadrant/firewall adjuster and cable. Hopefully this solves the problem.
What is the right adjustment for the clutch? Everyone seems to have a different answer or say the clutch isn't adjusted correctly, where can I find the correct way to adj the clutch??
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