Anyone here use the Motive pressure bleeder? Seems like a great tool. Looking to buy one. Does it come with the correct master cylinder fitting?
Thanks!
Thanks!
GT500 dirty brake fluid
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There is no easy way to completely flush the clutch system even wen changing all the lines. I guess repeated clutching and changing the reservoir fluid multiple times would dilute the fluid and get most of it out....which is what I will probably due over the next few months and keep my eye on it.
But I now know that the blackish mixture is definitely something in the clutch mechanism that is rusting or disintegrading. I saw no discoloration in any of the brake fluid as I pushed it through the lines and I removed and cleaned the MC too just in case. The particles/film tends to coat the inside of the reservoir turning it very dark and making it impossible to even see the fluid or level from the outside. I removed the reservoir and replaced it with a new one (without the output pipe for the clutch supply line) since I couldn't really even clean it completely with it out of the vehicle. With about 200 miles on the car after this, the brake system is clear and clean and the clutch system fluid already has the discoloration and blackish particles working their way up to the reservoir from probably the fluid that was still in the actual clutch mechanism. I'm sure that as I clean and dilute the clutch system with new fluid I will still see the contamination slowly occur. If you saw the fluid you would realize it is not moisture contaminating the fluid but rather something disintegrating. I have four cars and flush their systems every two to 3 years, I have never seen anything like this in any vehicle I have ever owned...not even close to this even in peoples vehicles who never changed their fluids in 10 years. And whatever it is, it appears to be accelerating with time since it only starting happening to where it was even noticeable within the last 3 years as the car is aging....maybe time for new clutch mechanism with only 40K.
But I now know that the blackish mixture is definitely something in the clutch mechanism that is rusting or disintegrading. I saw no discoloration in any of the brake fluid as I pushed it through the lines and I removed and cleaned the MC too just in case. The particles/film tends to coat the inside of the reservoir turning it very dark and making it impossible to even see the fluid or level from the outside. I removed the reservoir and replaced it with a new one (without the output pipe for the clutch supply line) since I couldn't really even clean it completely with it out of the vehicle. With about 200 miles on the car after this, the brake system is clear and clean and the clutch system fluid already has the discoloration and blackish particles working their way up to the reservoir from probably the fluid that was still in the actual clutch mechanism. I'm sure that as I clean and dilute the clutch system with new fluid I will still see the contamination slowly occur. If you saw the fluid you would realize it is not moisture contaminating the fluid but rather something disintegrating. I have four cars and flush their systems every two to 3 years, I have never seen anything like this in any vehicle I have ever owned...not even close to this even in peoples vehicles who never changed their fluids in 10 years. And whatever it is, it appears to be accelerating with time since it only starting happening to where it was even noticeable within the last 3 years as the car is aging....maybe time for new clutch mechanism with only 40K.
I use this and a powered vacuum bleeder from Harbor freight....both work well.
Get the black label series from Motive...it has metal caps and a longer hose assembly. You need to order the correct adapter kit so read the application guide.....model 1118 for the kit for 2005 Mustangs to around 2015 - this is for the metal cap that only turns about 1/6 of a turn with the three pronged cap. If the cap screws on like 2-4 turns on the 2015 and up then the kit is # 1109. I just ordered more adapters for other cars along with the quick disconnect adapters so I can quickly swap the connecting part for the right vehicle. Definitely worth the money and a time saver for doing it alone. Go to the Motive site directly to see all the options and adapters. I used the original universal adapter on my reservoir and it worked but I would recommend the specific cap. I had a couple of leaks using their universal adapter since it is more prone to leaking if you pump the pressure too high and it can make a mess. I used a hose and distilled water to flush the spilled fluid....you will probably spill some one way or another!
As I showed in previous pictures in this thread, a bleeder that is available from McLeod will get the clutch system mostly flushed......shown below, it attaches at the bellhousing.....
I bought one of these bleeders along with the FRPP pre-curved clutch line, but have not installed any of it yet....
The bleeder will at minimum allow flushing from the reservoir through the clutch master cyl. and through the line to the bell housing. The TOB and it's line is the only portion of the system in question for flushing. Could this bleeder somewhat flush that portion also by pushing the clutch pedal down with new/fresh fluid at this bell housing bleeder and then keep the pedal down and open the bleeder and allowing the pressure plate to push the TOB back and pushing old/new mixed fluid out of the bleeder? and repeatedly doing this get much of the old fluid out or at least diluting it?
R
If you find that this pressure bleeder does have the correct fittings and/or cap to fit on the Mustang M/C, I would be interested in investing in one also.
When I did my brakes, I had my wife do it the "old style" way, pump the pedal, hold it down, open the bleeder, close bleeder, repeat.......and that worked fine, but I am always open to a newer/better way.
If nothing else, the ABS module is wayyyyyy too expensive to not keep the system flushed with clean fluid.......and I'll bet that the ABS module in our GT500's is most likely unique to the GT500 application and will at some point be obsolete, and the 2007-2009 may be obsolete already?
R
I bought the black labeled Motive brake bleeder when I swapped to Baers on my KRs. It makes flushing/bleeding brakes a one man job. My wife hated having to do it the old way! I’ve since bought m/c adapters for some of my other vehicles. I highly recommend Motive. Hth
Stainless steel does not rust, it behaves like aluminum where it forms a protective layer. In a highly corrosive environment it might but not in this case. Even if it did, the moisture absorbed by the brake fluid is already bonded to it, so how would it bond to the metal also?
Furthermore, if something is turning into rust it means it is not what ever it used be. Meaning important braking components are not there anymore. How would Ford or any manufacturer design a car with this kind of braking system?
Also, the dirt accumulates fast, people reported seeing it within a couple of days. Rust takes a lot longer to form and chip.
Furthermore, if something is turning into rust it means it is not what ever it used be. Meaning important braking components are not there anymore. How would Ford or any manufacturer design a car with this kind of braking system?
Also, the dirt accumulates fast, people reported seeing it within a couple of days. Rust takes a lot longer to form and chip.
So where is the dirt coming from? and how is it getting into the system in the amount that the M/C reservoir is black coated and when the bleeder screws are cracked (opened) at the calipers there is Black there also? that is A LOT of dirt contamination!!!
So how is this "dirt" getting through a tiny vent hole in the M/C cap and completely dirtying both system? I would have to check my billet Super Snake M/C cap, I believe there is a rubber bellows inside the cap that expands as the fluid level goes down.......If that is the entry point for the dirt, there should be evidence of dirt above that rubber bellows. If there is a leak anywhere else, it would show up as "a leak" and the brake pressure at that point would be much greater that the atmosphere pressure where the dirt is entering.
I personally can't believe that GT500 owners on here keep such dirty engine compartments that dirt is coming in through their M/C reservoir cap hole? I know my car is not like that (dirty), and I had dark sediments in my brake fluid.......
>>>>>EDIT - READ THE INFO. I COPIED AND PASTED IN MY NEXT POST<<<<<
R
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Ok, so maybe it is not dirt or rust, maybe it is the normal breakdown of Brake fluid of over time as it is exposed to moisture, pressure and heat?
Believe me, I have a pile of money in my front and rear Baer Extremes and I don't want dirt, rust or anything else to slowly be deteriorating the system from the inside out, so I am always concerned about odd looking fluid colors.
Read below......
Brake fluid is black or brown Inspection Service
Your car requires several different fluids in order to operate. Engine oil, transmission fluid, power steering fluid and coolant are all essential. Another important one is brake fluid. Like other fluids, your brake fluid will deteriorate over time and eventually need to be replaced with a brake system flush. If you’ve noticed that your brake fluid appears black or brown, it’s well past time for a service.
How this system works:
Your brakes are operated by fluid pressure. The master cylinder and brake booster work to create pressure, which is then directed to the moving parts of the system (the calipers and shoe actuators). In a normal system, the brake fluid is clear or very light gold in color. This is true whether your car requires DOT 3, 4 or 5 brake fluid.
Brake fluid is held in the master cylinder reservoir, but it is also stored in the brake lines that run from the master cylinder to each wheel. You have two types of brake lines – steel and rubber. Over time and through normal use, brake fluid becomes contaminated. This happens on all vehicles, even brand new ones.
It requires only a couple of years for the fluid to build up enough contaminants that the color begins to change. It will darken over time, changing from clear/golden to a darker gold. In severe situations, your brake fluid may appear to be brown, or even black (think used engine oil).
It’s important that your brake fluid is changed regularly, before it turns brown or black. Very dark colors indicate that your fluid has collected a significant amount of contamination, and might have absorbed moisture, as well. This reduces the system’s ability to build pressure, which compromises your braking performance. You may have noticed that your brake pedal feels softer, or spongy. In serious situations, you may have to pump the pedal a couple of times for it to work properly.
Common reasons for this to happen:
The mechanic will inspect the master cylinder, lines and other brake system components. The mechanic will also determine how long it has been since your brake fluid was last changed, and may need to perform a brake fluid flush to remove the contaminated, old fluid and replace it with fresh, clean fluid.
How important is this service?
Brake fluid darkens as it ages – it’s natural, and due to normal contamination that occurs in all brake systems.
R
Believe me, I have a pile of money in my front and rear Baer Extremes and I don't want dirt, rust or anything else to slowly be deteriorating the system from the inside out, so I am always concerned about odd looking fluid colors.
Read below......
Brake fluid is black or brown Inspection Service
Your car requires several different fluids in order to operate. Engine oil, transmission fluid, power steering fluid and coolant are all essential. Another important one is brake fluid. Like other fluids, your brake fluid will deteriorate over time and eventually need to be replaced with a brake system flush. If you’ve noticed that your brake fluid appears black or brown, it’s well past time for a service.
How this system works:
Your brakes are operated by fluid pressure. The master cylinder and brake booster work to create pressure, which is then directed to the moving parts of the system (the calipers and shoe actuators). In a normal system, the brake fluid is clear or very light gold in color. This is true whether your car requires DOT 3, 4 or 5 brake fluid.
Brake fluid is held in the master cylinder reservoir, but it is also stored in the brake lines that run from the master cylinder to each wheel. You have two types of brake lines – steel and rubber. Over time and through normal use, brake fluid becomes contaminated. This happens on all vehicles, even brand new ones.
It requires only a couple of years for the fluid to build up enough contaminants that the color begins to change. It will darken over time, changing from clear/golden to a darker gold. In severe situations, your brake fluid may appear to be brown, or even black (think used engine oil).
It’s important that your brake fluid is changed regularly, before it turns brown or black. Very dark colors indicate that your fluid has collected a significant amount of contamination, and might have absorbed moisture, as well. This reduces the system’s ability to build pressure, which compromises your braking performance. You may have noticed that your brake pedal feels softer, or spongy. In serious situations, you may have to pump the pedal a couple of times for it to work properly.
Common reasons for this to happen:
- Normal Aging Gone to the Extreme: The most common reason that brake fluid appears brown or black is that normal aging has gone unchecked (you haven’t had the fluid changed in too long). Contaminants collect in the fluid, darkening the color and reducing its ability to work.
- Moisture Contamination: Brake fluid can absorb moisture from the surrounding air. This generally occurs by rubber brake lines allowing moisture to seep in. When moisture accumulates in brake fluid, it causes problems in a couple of ways. Water has a much lower boiling point than brake fluid, and can reach very high temperatures at the calipers and drums. This causes the water to flash boil into steam, causing the brake fluid to darken, but also creating air in the lines. This can cause a soft pedal, or even cause you to have to pump the brake pedal to get the system to work properly.
- Deteriorating Rubber Lines: The rubber brake lines on your car will eventually deteriorate and need to be replaced. Brake fluid is also corrosive, and while the lines are designed to withstand that corrosion, they’ll eventually begin to break down. Microscopic pieces of rubber and chemicals leaching out of the lines into the fluid will also cause it to darken.
- Normal Heating: Brake fluid is heated by contact with the calipers, and this heat creates a chemical change in the fluid, adding to the darkening created by moisture and other types of contamination.
The mechanic will inspect the master cylinder, lines and other brake system components. The mechanic will also determine how long it has been since your brake fluid was last changed, and may need to perform a brake fluid flush to remove the contaminated, old fluid and replace it with fresh, clean fluid.
How important is this service?
Brake fluid darkens as it ages – it’s natural, and due to normal contamination that occurs in all brake systems.
R
Trust me...I have worked on a lot of cars and changed a lot of brake fluids over the last 50 years...this is not a breakdown of the brake fluid, not dirt and not moisture getting into the system. These systems are closed and sealed tight even at the MC cap. The fluid doesn't age like this in less than 2 years and 8K miles of easy braking. All my brakes were replaced and flushed when I put the Ford brake upgrade system in less than two years ago. If there was any type of leakage even in the clutch system you would know very quickly due to a loss of the brake and clutch systems. There is no air of dirt getting into my system. This is something I have never seen before in any of my cars braking systems and I think I caught it before it really contaminated my 6 piston brakes. It is a breakdown of a component in the clutch system so separate your systems if you have not done it yet.
The contamination on the inside of my old reservoir is like a coating of black silt material and it looks to me like it could be filtered from the brake fluid itself. I can see it somewhat floating in the the fluid like waves, like an oil spill in water. When I change my clutch I will replace all the components down in the bell housing at the same time since that is probably the source of the problem. I doubt the clutch M/C has any problem or I would have lost my clutch system by now but I may replace it when I change my clutch since I'm sure it is not benefitting the M/C seals. I already took it out once to change the supply line to it and cleaned it.
I am not too concerned about the issue in the clutch system.......but I would be concerned about it in the braking system. I will simply change the clutch reservoir fluid every 6 months from now on to dilute the contamination.
The contamination on the inside of my old reservoir is like a coating of black silt material and it looks to me like it could be filtered from the brake fluid itself. I can see it somewhat floating in the the fluid like waves, like an oil spill in water. When I change my clutch I will replace all the components down in the bell housing at the same time since that is probably the source of the problem. I doubt the clutch M/C has any problem or I would have lost my clutch system by now but I may replace it when I change my clutch since I'm sure it is not benefitting the M/C seals. I already took it out once to change the supply line to it and cleaned it.
I am not too concerned about the issue in the clutch system.......but I would be concerned about it in the braking system. I will simply change the clutch reservoir fluid every 6 months from now on to dilute the contamination.
I don't know what or where this contamination is coming from, at the very least I don't believe its rust.
I've referenced the TMO thread because if it was dirt from the clutch, then the brake fluid should stay clean once the two systems are separated, and thats what people have reported.
I've referenced the TMO thread because if it was dirt from the clutch, then the brake fluid should stay clean once the two systems are separated, and thats what people have reported.
Well from your description and the picture I have added to this thread, it sounds like the brake fluid itself, as is noted in the link that I posted. If the system is sealed and no other foreign material has entered the system (dirt ect.), and the system is not rusted because it is stainless, then the only other option is the breakdown of the fluid itself as is outlined in the copy and paste I added....there are no other options since the system is closed......
This amplifies how important it is to keep good/clean fluid in our brake systems which also equates to the clutch system, as much of it that can be flushed.....
As far as I know, the brake fluid that is used in the clutch system will Never get back into the brake system because of its lower level, as I said, "gravity works", so once that nasty fluid gets into the clutch system, there is no way to get it out other than adding the Mcleod clutch flush fitting that I showed in pictures. If you do not have that clutch flush fitting installed, then the "old/contaminated" fluid is going to make its way to your separated clutch master reservoir every time you use your clutch pedal.......which is many times on these manual trans. cars...Once you flush the clutch system to the bell housing location with the McLeod bleeder, the fluid that is pushed back into your separated clutch reservoir when you take your foot off the clutch pedal will stay cleaner.
Flushing the short TOB line inside the bell housing??? That is a different issue, but it is wayyyy down stream from the separated clutch m/c reservoir.
R
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Its possible it is really old brake fluid in the clutch system but the clutch system appears to circulate the fluid within it much more than a braking system ever would. If I keep flushing the new clutch reservoir I will be able to tell after a few months if the problem stops since most of the fluid would have been exchanged.
When I removed the clutch pedal, I cleaned the clutch M/C and replaced the bell housing line with SS and the supply line when I added the new reservoir. All the fluid down to the top of the bell housing was removed. After I added new fluid and got the clutch working, I had already noticed the black silt (old brake fluid from housing ??) coming up at the bottom of the new clutch reservoir. The only old fluid left would have been in the bell housing side. I will keep changing the fluid in the reservoir for a while and it should dilute any old fluid that was left in the bell housing since the clutch action does appear to slowly circulate the fluid within entire the clutch system, much faster than I thought it would. This is how the brake fluid gets contaminated. The clutch fluid appears to slowly circulate due to the pedal action and the contaminated (bad) clutch fluid works its way up to the reservoir. If there is only one reservoir and the fluid is at the max level, the clutch fluid intermixes with the brake fluid and both are now contaminated. Even though there are some channels in the reservoir, the fluid will still intermix with both systems in the single reservoir system.
When I removed the clutch pedal, I cleaned the clutch M/C and replaced the bell housing line with SS and the supply line when I added the new reservoir. All the fluid down to the top of the bell housing was removed. After I added new fluid and got the clutch working, I had already noticed the black silt (old brake fluid from housing ??) coming up at the bottom of the new clutch reservoir. The only old fluid left would have been in the bell housing side. I will keep changing the fluid in the reservoir for a while and it should dilute any old fluid that was left in the bell housing since the clutch action does appear to slowly circulate the fluid within entire the clutch system, much faster than I thought it would. This is how the brake fluid gets contaminated. The clutch fluid appears to slowly circulate due to the pedal action and the contaminated (bad) clutch fluid works its way up to the reservoir. If there is only one reservoir and the fluid is at the max level, the clutch fluid intermixes with the brake fluid and both are now contaminated. Even though there are some channels in the reservoir, the fluid will still intermix with both systems in the single reservoir system.
It is sad that the complete clutch system can not be flushed including the TOB line. If you completely cleaned you clutch master cyl, then I really don't know why you are seeing discoloration, you would think the "old" fluid in the TOB line would not make it all the way up to the reservoir?
Here is another thought.......If heat is a factor in the discoloration of the brake fluid, as is mentioned in the article I linked, could the clutch system feed line (metal or plastic) being in the relatively close location to the left side exhaust be a factor in an accelerating factor in the discoloration of the fluid? <<Just a thought...
R
I have the motive bleeder. Its an awesome tool. Can bleed the brakes on the car in 10-15 mins total once the wheels are off. You need the 1118 adapter I believe.
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What is the application fr the 1107 adapter? I see 1118 adapter listed in posts above for the 2005-2014 Mustangs?
>>EDIT<< Ok, so here is a link to the 1107 application listing from the Motive website, just so no one goes down the wrong path when buying a Mustang adapter.....
1107 - Ford/Asian 3-Prong Adapter
The 1118 is the correct adapter for the MY2005-2014 Mustang. I believe the adapter changed again in 2015-up.
R
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Crap your right the mustang is different. the 1107 is late model fords, excluding the 05+ mustang.
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