qwertyui
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GT with IRS...
- Thread starter sxynerd
- Start date
:shrug:
Oh and I for got if you have never autox before it is a blast I love it and try to make every one i can
drag racing 12-13 second run = not much skill
autox 60 seconds + = lots of skill
drag racing 12-13 second run = not much skill
autox 60 seconds + = lots of skill
The minute you upgrade the brakes you go from ESP to SM or Street Modified. Trust me, I run Roush Alcon's and they don't get you any quicker times. Autocross does not show the Cobra brakes or even the stock brakes weaknesses, which are that they fade when they are pushed too hard, too long. That is not a problem in autocross. I am not sure about the IRS upgrade. Let me just say that you don't need the IRS at all. I have an 03Cobra and I have run against several SN95 cobras and they run pretty damn fast.
A guy from Omaha named Mark Jorgenson, up until this year, ran a white 97 Cobra in the KC region from time to time. He was amazingly quick and ran in ESP which is somewhat limited in what mods are allowed. In the 2007 Solo Nationals he pax'd 16th out of over 1100 cars. When he decided not to run this year, I know I was dissappointed and so were many others as he was so much fun to watch.
I have been autocrossing for 3 years now. You will gain far more in quicker run times by spending your money on getting to every event you can get to and running as much as you can afford. Tires are important. Running on street tires for the first year is usually a good idea. I learned alot about car control running street tires. Horsepower in autocross, is a double edge sword.
When I walk the course with alot of autocrossers, they talk about mashing the gas here and mashing the gas there and I keep thinking, if I do what they do, I would end up in a cloud of smoke and spin out. Autocross is very challenging to say the least, learning to do it quickly in a high horsepower car with a lot of torque is especially so. Seat time is worth more then mods. I can't say I would have believed that 3 years ago, but after watching guys in stock Miata's, Mini Coopers, Honda Civic's.... run circles around me, I believe it. It is very humbling.
A guy from Omaha named Mark Jorgenson, up until this year, ran a white 97 Cobra in the KC region from time to time. He was amazingly quick and ran in ESP which is somewhat limited in what mods are allowed. In the 2007 Solo Nationals he pax'd 16th out of over 1100 cars. When he decided not to run this year, I know I was dissappointed and so were many others as he was so much fun to watch.
I have been autocrossing for 3 years now. You will gain far more in quicker run times by spending your money on getting to every event you can get to and running as much as you can afford. Tires are important. Running on street tires for the first year is usually a good idea. I learned alot about car control running street tires. Horsepower in autocross, is a double edge sword.
When I walk the course with alot of autocrossers, they talk about mashing the gas here and mashing the gas there and I keep thinking, if I do what they do, I would end up in a cloud of smoke and spin out. Autocross is very challenging to say the least, learning to do it quickly in a high horsepower car with a lot of torque is especially so. Seat time is worth more then mods. I can't say I would have believed that 3 years ago, but after watching guys in stock Miata's, Mini Coopers, Honda Civic's.... run circles around me, I believe it. It is very humbling.
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I'm not 100% sure the IRS nor Cobra brakes would throw him out of ESP depending on his other modifications. I had plans to put an IRS and front and rear Cobra brake kit on my V6 and it was still holding me in the ESP class. I'm not completely sure on the SCCA rules as far as body styles go, but being that a SN95 mustang did come with IRS and those brakes he might be ok.
As I read it, the IRS and Cobra brakes would be legal, but I would still check with the SCCA.
"15.1.C
Equipment and/or specifications may be exchanged between different years and models of a vehicle if (a) the item is standard on the year/model from which it was taken, and (b) the years/models are listed on the same line in appendix A (Street Prepared Classes). The updated/backdated part or the part to which it is to be attached may not altered, modified, machined or otherwise changed to facilitate the updating/backdating allowance. Standard factory installation methods, locations and configurations are allowed. The updating and/or backdating of engines, transmissions or transaxles must be done as a unit; component parts of these units may not be interchanged. "
Appendix A Street Prepared Class E
"Ford/Mercury
Mustang ('94-'04) all NOC including Cobra, Cobra R (SN95)"
As long as you don't or don't have to modify the IRS or your car to get it to fit, it sounds like it is allowed under ESP rules. The only question I would have is if you have to drill holes for the rear IRS attaching point be considered machining? I don't think they already have holes in 96 model cars, but that is getting pretty technical.
"15.1.C
Equipment and/or specifications may be exchanged between different years and models of a vehicle if (a) the item is standard on the year/model from which it was taken, and (b) the years/models are listed on the same line in appendix A (Street Prepared Classes). The updated/backdated part or the part to which it is to be attached may not altered, modified, machined or otherwise changed to facilitate the updating/backdating allowance. Standard factory installation methods, locations and configurations are allowed. The updating and/or backdating of engines, transmissions or transaxles must be done as a unit; component parts of these units may not be interchanged. "
Appendix A Street Prepared Class E
"Ford/Mercury
Mustang ('94-'04) all NOC including Cobra, Cobra R (SN95)"
As long as you don't or don't have to modify the IRS or your car to get it to fit, it sounds like it is allowed under ESP rules. The only question I would have is if you have to drill holes for the rear IRS attaching point be considered machining? I don't think they already have holes in 96 model cars, but that is getting pretty technical.
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IMO he goes to Mod. he's changing the mounting points from stock,
Realistically, unless its fully prepped the class wont matter. The SP cars that were at Topeka were not road cars.
GO out and have fun. Worry about the class on you next car.
Realistically, unless its fully prepped the class wont matter. The SP cars that were at Topeka were not road cars.
GO out and have fun. Worry about the class on you next car.
I autox with the sra, and driven many in autox with sra. really small bennifet to use a irs. IRS will throw you out of ESP unless you do everything else to update it to a 99-01 or 03-04 cobra (motor, tranny, and suspension)
You don't have to change every thing to make the irs legal just tell then that you did a conversion (updating parts from a mustang that is legal) what they don't know wont hurt them.
The was that i look at it is if i have street tires and poly bushings in the rear that are not legal gut the people i am racing with have stock bushings but race tires and i beat them i am still at the disadvantage but beat them.
the bottom line is just go out there and have fun. When you are first starting you will be in the novice class any way for up to one year so just have fun then start to take it serious.:-D
Very well said.
One thing I wanna add is you don't need bigger brakes. A good idea is to get better brake pads on the car. They will make a world of difference over stock pads. Bigger brakes would be something I would do if I open tracked my car... not autoX.
Some things that you can do in the SP classes would be like springs, shocks, sway bars, shifter, rims, and race tires. In SP classes, you don't have to run stock size rims. I run 315 Hoosier's all the way around on my Z06 and I really like the way that feels. I will be adding a bigger front sway bar soon so I'm looking forward to seeing how that feels.
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