Going to lemon our Focus - what to expect...?

[ElscottHavoc]

About a year ago, we bought our 2013 Ford Focus Titanium brand new (87 miles) fully loaded.

By 1500 miles, the auto DCT was bucking and grinding, wwhich required new clutches and bearings.

It was fixed until about 5000 miles, when it started grinding again, but we couldn't get dealership to cooperate, Ford insisted there were no issues and so it wasn't until about 10000 miles it got so bad they were forced to tear it apart and (surprise surprise) clutches were burned up.

But that fix lasted 200 miles and started grinding and bucking around again. This time, the car was in the shop for 2 weeks and Ford put in entirely new transmission.

I figured, its a whole new DCT, surely Ford has it fixed, but wever now gone a total of 400 miles since entire tranny replaced and its now grinding and bucking worse than ever - 14000 or so on odometer.

So, I met with my lawyer who took copies of stuff and preparing to serve them the Lemon Law papers.

But, my lawyer in his infinite legaleze speech really lost me in his explanation. So, what can I expect from here. Do I stand to lose lots of money from depreciation? Do I have mere hours to turn around and find another car once Ford refunds me? Just wondering what to expect and best way to get my best financial position from this as I foresee this costing me one way or another unfortunately.

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[KingJacobo]

I don't know anything about how lemon law works, but I do work (and drive) '13-14 Focus practically on a daily basis. The transmissions all SUCK.

Get a different car if you can. 90% of every single one I have driven studders and bucks to some extent.

 

[ElscottHavoc]

That's very interesting. Considering they stop bucking once the transmissions are fixed, I'd say many of them have clutch or other DCT problems.

I'm going to prompt the lawyer to sub poena for any other Focuses that have been repaired with similar issues and see where we stand class action wise.

I don't know anything about how lemon law works, but I do work (and drive) '13-14 Focus practically on a daily basis. The transmissions all SUCK.

Get a different car if you can. 90% of every single one I have driven studders and bucks to some extent.

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[RDJ]

you won't stand a chance with a class action. I bought mine new in 2012 .. I love it zero issues .. and the trans is not that bad once you get a good one. people expect them to ride like a normal auto transmission. they are not an auto transmission. there are those that have issues .. and if you want to lemon yours more power to you.

 

[4rd Toys]

Slightly off Topic but had to ask:

Hey, doesn't the previous generation Fusion [11/12 Model year] have the same 2.3L 4-cylinder & the auto D/C Tranny as the Focus Titanium's?!?

I hate the automatic 6-speed tranny connected to the 2.3L in my Fusion..... It's just plain lazy & wants to be in 6th gear [overdrive?] every second....
In mine, literally all it has is "P", "R", "D", "L" for the shifter [NO "4", "3", or "2" on the selector]. I tried using the "down-hill" button to downshift or I simply go from "D" to "L" to get to accelerate or pass....

 

[ElscottHavoc]

I don't expect it to drive like an auto, but I don't expect it to drive like a shitty manual driver either. We test drove a super smooth, super quiet car and that's what we should get. I'll let our lawyer decide what we have a chance against. If you have no issues, that's great - you're lucky compared to the many I've talked to at FocusFanatics.

I've had our Focus to three dealerships, each one said they see a lot of transmission problems and replace a lot of clutches - they just cant do anything until Ford approves it. Only one dealership has actually performed repairs. If we've had our clutches replaced twice, plus an entirely new transmission having issues I'd take a bet there is a severe issue, especially since repairs work for 500-1000 miles.

Its not just an issue of getting used to the feel and grinding, its an issue of having clutches burned up and brass shavings all over when they tear the tranny apart. That's a problem. If it wasn't a big problem, Ford would have our car resolved by now.

Having a hit or miss vehicle is not a good quality product.

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[BDF8]

I can provide some good info. My father just lemoned His 2012 Focus Titanium. Tranny was rebuilt 4 times. He had a shit load of miles on it (67000). After a back and forth for about a month, they settled on a 5000 check and he traded it in to the dealer. I will say one thing, Fords customer service was ON POINT. Which they damn well better be producing that GARBAGE. They know that transmission is bad, but a recall will be too much $.

 

[oldmodman]

I can only provide information about the California Lemon Law.

If you try to do it yourself the run around will be EPIC.

But with an attorney that specializes in "lemoning" it went pretty smooth. A customer that I worked with all the time bought a 2005 Ford Excursion (loaded). And it went into the shop many, many times and was out of his possession for three months. He got it because he had a 2001 and it never went into the shop for anything. He wasn't so lucky with the 2005.
Within weeks of getting it the engine would miss intermittently, then die. In it went and they said the spark plugs were replaced. Next, same thing and more plugs. Third time, coil replaced. It died leaving the dealership. Trip four engine computer. Then one head was replaced. Next time other head. Died while towing to the river. He had it towed back to the selling dealer and handed them the letter from the attorney.

After three month and one trip to an "advocate" whatever that is, the dealer and Ford gave him back his entire purchase price.

He got an Escalade and never had a single problem with it.

 

[AtlantaGT500]

I lemon lawed a car in GA. The car had problem after problem. I went to the dealer myself, talked to the manager, he got me in touch corporate, they called me, I had a new identical car two weeks later that I never had a problem with for the 2 years I owned it. It was very easy.

 

[Deceptive]

Has anyone looked into the computer program in regards to the transmission as a possible culprit?

 

[RDJ]

Has anyone looked into the computer program in regards to the transmission as a possible culprit?

When these cars first came out there were issues. a LOT of them (NOT ALL) were because the dealership did not set customers expectations concerning the behavior of the DCT. when it is new (2012 at least) it took anywhere from 1k t 1.5k miles to "settle in". but even after that is does NOT shift like people expect an automatic to. there were other problems as well and ford did a software update that seemed to have fixed the majority of the issues for the 2012 owners.

I can't speak to the 2013s other than to say this sounds like a repeat of some of the 2012 issues and people tried to get a class action going then but it went nowhere. how deep the problem goes is really unknown, because like everything else people who have issues bitch the loudest (some rightly so) but people who are happy rarely speak up. so forums like focusfanatics (which I am a member of) are filled with complaints and few praises. making it VERY hard to judge if this is a widespread issue or just a minority of owners being very vocal.

I am NOT saying the op does not have a real issue, pretty obvious he does. but class action is not likely to get enough traction to take off. If I were the op I would tell my lawyer to forget class action and focus on getting MY issue solved. let him work on a class action status on his own dime and time.

 

[BDF8]

When these cars first came out there were issues. a LOT of them (NOT ALL) were because the dealership did not set customers expectations concerning the behavior of the DCT. when it is new (2012 at least) it took anywhere from 1k t 1.5k miles to "settle in". but even after that is does NOT shift like people expect an automatic to. there were other problems as well and ford did a software update that seemed to have fixed the majority of the issues for the 2012 owners.

I can't speak to the 2013s other than to say this sounds like a repeat of some of the 2012 issues and people tried to get a class action going then but it went nowhere. how deep the problem goes is really unknown, because like everything else people who have issues bitch the loudest (some rightly so) but people who are happy rarely speak up. so forums like focusfanatics (which I am a member of) are filled with complaints and few praises. making it VERY hard to judge if this is a widespread issue or just a minority of owners being very vocal.

I am NOT saying the op does not have a real issue, pretty obvious he does. but class action is not likely to get enough traction to take off. If I were the op I would tell my lawyer to forget class action and focus on getting MY issue solved. let him work on a class action status on his own dime and time.

I agree to forget the class action. Just not going to happen. Have your lawyer get Ford to cut you a check, trade the car in and wipe your hands with it.

If it helps, my dad bought a Sonata and he hates it more then he did the Focus.

 

[DHG1078]

Sorry to hear about y our issues OP. It sucks the DCT is having these issues. The manual version is apparently pretty solid if your interested in going that route. Hope everything works out for you.

 

[ElscottHavoc]

Thanks. I would totally go with a manual if it wasn't my wife's car. Overall, the Focus is one amazing car with the exception of our steaming pile of crap DCT we've been plagued with.

A.) My wife doesn't know how to drive a manual and has zero interest in learning.

B.) She drives the car for work and does a lot of in town driving taking clients around. She likes the convenience of an auto for that.

That said, I'm submitting a letter to Ford this week along with 17 service record sheets. Our car has been in the shop (not consecutively) for a total of 30 days including weekends - most of that time spent by FoMoCo trying to diagnose and decide course of action over Hotline.


So far, this has been our experience.

Buy 2013 Focus at Dealer 1 with 87 miles. Bring it back at 1000 miles or so grinding obnoxiously.

Dealer 1 says this is normal, its a DCT. I call BS, but they say just give it time.

I insist over time its not right, dealer finally tears it apart and finds brass shavings all over and clutches burned up.

Get it back and drive it around until about 5000 miles grind returns. They say its normal again. I insist we've been through this before, the noise was gone and now it is back. They say again, give it time.

Decide to try my luck with Dealer 2. They say its normal, let it break in. I insist its bad and that I'm tired of hearing its normal.

Car starts having low end knock. Dealer 2 is confusedand spends 1 week diagnosing before saying its tough luck, no one knows the issue so we can't fix it and were not tearing it apart unless Ford okays it - but its probably nothing major.

Wife calls one day and says seat belt not pulling out, so she drives to a nearby Dealer 3. Bring it to Dealer 3. They fix seat belt, but refuse to work on transmission since it was already repaired by Dealer 1 and should be repaired again by dealer 1 in case the issue was improper repair. They say if it ends up being an error on Dealer 1s part, they'll have trouble getting reimbursed by Ford. They agree its a problem though and service advisor says he sees these problems several times each week. Suggests I contact lawyer off the record.

I do, but the lawyer Ive known ends up being a representing firm of Dealer 1. Says Im a good candidate for lemon law possibly, but since his firm represents the family owning Dealer 1 he can't accept the case as there is a conflict of interest. He refers me to another lawyer but suggests to get back with Dealer 1 toward end of week.

I go back to Dealer 1 and they promptly take car back, put me in loaner leading me to believe the lawyer had a chat with them as they aren't messing around getting on it this time and I also hear the service advisor mention to the rental car guy to make sure he forwards all paperwork to the GM - he wants to be kept in the loop. I receive car back one week later after they find bearings damaged, clutches burned up, and several other problems.

I get it back, but less than a week later I bring car back 1 week later when it starts grinding again obnoxiously. The service advisor brings me to talk to general manager who says "he'd be lieing if he said some of these cars have issues, but just be patient and hell get it fixed." I leave that day in a grinding, bucking 2014 Focus while they promise to fix my 2013.

2 weeks later (2 weeks ago), I get my Focus back with a new transmission after they find severe internal clutch damage and bearing failures on the previous one. That was only 400 miles on the new tranny ago and over the last week its doing it all over again. In fact, last night it was jerking so bad from a stop light I thought I was going to get rear ended when it suddenly cut out. Then there was this loud grinding.


Sorry for the rant, I'm just so pissed. The lawyer said Iowa statute allows them to reimburse an amount less my use, but that seems so wrong. My car spent a whole months worth of time in the shop where I got a lesser model, but am expected to receive a depreciation of use for that month.

The remaining year or so, which I could agree to accepting fair use of the vehicle was spent most often driving a vehicle that my wife insisted was absolute shit to drive, I insisted had problems, but Ford twiddled thumbs. If Ford would have acted faster, we wouldn't be a year down the road, so I'm paying for their unwillingness to believe me.

Lastly, I get paid salary, but my wife is hourly. Many times, she had to miss periods of work to drop off the car, have it inspected, pick it up, etc. She missed way more work than necessary if they wouldn't have given us the run around. I often took the car in too, but I manage large projects, teams and deadlines with several thousand dollar fines if late so it wasn't always feasible for me to work with Fords timing.

This whole lemon law process just sucks. The way I see it, Ford delivered me a shitty vehicle and now one way it another I stand to lose or have already lost out on money, simply because they can bully me around.

That's why I was hoping maybe someone who's done it before could give me some tips to make it smoother and what would be fair to demand from Ford. I'm not looking to profit, but I want them to take responsibility for what this is going to cost me and has cost me (as little as it may be). Also, should I have a vehicle lined up in advance or is there a grace period where I can use the Focus, find another car and then turn it in to Ford.

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[4u 2 nv]

I always wondered…is it a single issue that keeps having issues to necessitate a Lemon…or a car that has a lot of different problems? I always felt my 02 Z28 was a lemon but had a LOT of small issues well before 20k miles. 4 window motors, Monsoon headunit, Monsoon Amp, drivers door speaker was replaced twice, 2 water pumps as both started leaking (first at 7k miles, second at 19k), Oil pan gasket as it started leaking also, High pressure A/C line as it randomly lost all Freon one day from a small crack near fitting, Pinion seal started leaking at 5500 miles so they went through the rear end (seal wise), clutch pedal return springs broke at least 3 times I can remember (they kept saying my Pro 5.0 Shifter was the blame lol).

 

[WireEater]

you won't stand a chance with a class action. I bought mine new in 2012 .. I love it zero issues .. and the trans is not that bad once you get a good one. people expect them to ride like a normal auto transmission. they are not an auto transmission. there are those that have issues .. and if you want to lemon yours more power to you.

Dude, you're never home. What have you put on it, like 10 miles?

 

[Torch10th]

I've been through the process with ford and my first piece of advise to you will be to get it fixed one last time and before it starts acting up, trade it.

For what it's worth, you don't have to retain a lawyer to go about this. I worked solely with Ford CS on my 2011 GT that was replaced under the lemon law. Ford CS is actually pretty good to work with. They are prompt, courteous and actually not idiots. It's when you get to the vehicle acquisition department that you want to pull your hair out. At that point Ford already knows they're buying back or replacing the vehicle and therefor losing money. They aren't exactly the most willing people to work with at that point. To compound this fact, the dealer is also getting screwed. Especially if you're doing a replacement. They lose a car from their inventory (you can no order under a replacement) and don't gain an allotment for it's sale. Ford sends them a $200.00 doc fee as a kick back for the whole thing. So, expect the dealer not to want to work with you either.

There are fees associated with this process. Lemon laws differ state by state, but usually if you're doing a buy-back you will receive reimbursement based on the total purchase price of the vehicle less title and registration fees and less applicable use fees. Those use fees are derived from the amount of miles put on the car. They use the government standard rate for miles driven which I believe is still .49 cents per mile. I know it's not fair, but there's no way around it. By law they have the right to collect it and they will. For a 14000 mile car you're looking at close to 7000 for this usage fee.

This is the primary reason I say to simply trade the vehicle. The whole process start to end is going to cost you a good bit of money (especially if you're retaining an attorney) and it's not incredibly streamlined. Between documentation with Ford CS, then working with the reacquisition department and finding a replacement vehicle, it took me just shy of 6 months to lemon my 2011 GT.

I want to just reiterate here that there's no demands with Ford you can make. the law is clear and it will be followed to the T. They aren't going to drop any usage or wear fees because they aren't legally obliged to. If you're doing a replacement you do also have to spend as much or more than you previously spent on your current vehicle. You have to pick from inventory at the dealer you're working with. They can always do dealer trades, but if you find something 1000 miles away, expect to pick up the tab for the shipping on that vehicle. In my situation I had a GT that was highly optioned and there were no other cars near it's price in a reasonable distance. So Ford let me spend a bit less than what I had originally spent.

It's your choice at the end of the day obviously, but if placed in that position again, I'd have just traded the car and taken the loss that way.

 

[Coiled03]

PM Hybred. She went through something similar.

 

[WireEater]

PM Hybred. She went through something similar.

With all of her cars.

 

[ElscottHavoc]

Thanks for your input. It has only heightened my anger haha. Just eating $7000 in usage fees because Ford is unwilling to comply in fixing the vehicle earlier is BS - even if that's the law.

If they A.) Wouldn't have kept pushing me off and believed me, B.) Actually fixed the vehicle and/or C.) Put me in a position to lemon before 14000 or so miles we wouldn't be in this position! They know its in their best interest to procrastinate and there was nothing I could do but have my wife pester them on a weekly basis until low and behold "oh...you're right, your transmission is busted".

So now, because of their engineering and service incompetence, I'm supposed to just swallow a ****ing load of cash like it never existed because I was their "unlucky customer" who got the "occasional" lemon.


As far as the question about if multiple small problems can be a lemon, I know here in Iowa you can lemon if you're car has been out of service in a shop for over 20 days I think. So, I suppose that could be one way...not sure the gritty details.

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