Fuel System

[Pruitt146]

Guys planning to upgrade to a TVS or Whipple in the near future. I have all the supporting mods purchased except for the fuel system. I've been told I can support 650rwhp with just a BAP on stock pumps but that is not my first choice. I like the idea of the budget return kit from Lethal but $1000 is a lot of money after buying a blower and supporting mods. Is there a happy medium point that anyone could recommend? This will be a strictly pump gas car. TIA.

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[cj428mach]

Do yourself a favor and go return with e85 compatible pumps. I did this on my Fore level 1 setup and am damn glad I did, it wasn't but a few months after going full return that I made the switch to e85 and its awesome. Take the time and do it right, some sort of return system and e85 compatible injectors you'll regret it later.

Oh and there really isn't any sort of medium ground. Its either stock pumps and bap or build a returnless or return system. Once you go with a new hat and pumps the price between return and returnless is almost nothing. I guess you could try to modify a stock hat with some GT pumps but thats not the "preferred" method.

 

[Pruitt146]

I appricate your input but I will not go e85. It is not very easy to get around my house and the place that do have it are not consistent. This car is driven less than 3000 miles a year and most if the time my two year is in it. I really don't even know why I'm putting money into it to make it faster lol. I guess for my budget the Lethal budget kit is my best option.

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[cj428mach]

I appricate your input but I will not go e85. It is not very easy to get around my house and the place that do have it are not consistent. This car is driven less than 3000 miles a year and most if the time my two year is in it. I really don't even know why I'm putting money into it to make it faster lol. I guess for my budget the Lethal budget kit is my best option.

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There isn't any real extra cost to get compatible pumps so you might as well do it. Between my two cobra's I've been twin screwed for about 1.5 years and trust me you get use to the horsepower. Next thing you know you'll be trying to run the most boost you safely can on pump gas. Then you'll wish you had just a little more, then maybe you'll want a torco/race gas tune...etc. Trust me 600rwhp gets old...

I absolutely love the e85, my car runs a lot cooler, makes way..way...way more power, and it virtually eliminates any chance of detonation.

My car is only going to hit about 1-2000 miles a year but the stuff is worth the hassle.

Oh and on the BAP+ stock pumps not every car will go as far as the next.
My old SB 80k mile car with new fuel filter, BAP, and 17lbs was 89% duty cycle.
My OW 8k mile car with new fuel filter, BAP, and 15lbs was 89% duty cycle.
The cars were using the exact same parts as I switched them from one car to the next.

 

[Pruitt146]

What kind of injectors do you have to use? That's all that is different, injectors and pumps?

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[cj428mach]

You just need big enough injectors. Pretty much any injector is compatible just need one thats 30% bigger than you'd need with gas. You could always add injectors later but if you go with a Whipple you'll hate pulling it just to install a bigger injector in the future. If you have a TVS then it takes like 15mins to change the injectors so just do them when you're ready for that part.

I went with the AEM 50-1200 "green" pumps and started running them on gas. When I was ready for e85 I drained the tank and swapped the tune and was ready to go. There really isn't any down side to at least having the right pumps so at least it keeps your options open if they put a station down the block from you.

If you're not ready to spend all the coin at once you can get the lethal budget/Fore Level 1 return. Then if you decide to push the car further just upgrade injectors feed line later. I went Fore Level 1, then later upgraded my rails/feedline and added bigger e85 compatible injectors.

 

[Pruitt146]

The lethal budget kit gives you the option to add 465lph e85 compatible Walboro pumps for an extra $230. I may do that just in case.

If I did the Fore level 1 what options do you recommend? Which pumps? Which electrical upgrade?

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[Bdubbs]

I did the tvs blower swap this spring. I also went with fore level 1 return system with gss342 pumps. I'm glad I went return, clean install, fairly easy to do, and I only put on roughly 1k miles a year. Keep in mind some of the bigger pumps generate more heat, so a hobbs switch might be necessary to install with it. Basically then 1 pump will be running full time, and when needed the hobbs switch will activate the 2 pump. I didn't feel like installing that extra stuff. If I ever want more power I'll do a race gas tune.

OP: If you never plan on e85, I'd recommend the walbro gss342 pumps, along with the FC2 controller, rail adapter, and fuel pressure gauge.

 

[cj428mach]

The lethal budget kit gives you the option to add 465lph e85 compatible Walboro pumps for an extra $230. I may do that just in case.

If I did the Fore level 1 what options do you recommend? Which pumps? Which electrical upgrade?

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I would PM TRBO VNM, Malcolmv8, or 04sleeper, they're all Fore dealers and can give you some good advice. I think the 465's are a little overkill the AEM 1200's should do close to 800rwhp. A few guys mention over heating their fuel with the 465's.. The hobbs switch is no big deal it requires running 2 extra wires which will come in your Fore kit if you order that option. I personally would go Fore if you have any issues Justin at Fore is awesome to deal with, if you order from one of the guys mentioned you'll probably save a lot. I love the way Fore built their wiring harness, its hard to explain. My Level 1 return setup was about $150 cheaper than listed on most sites.

 

[cj428mach]

OP: If you never plan on e85, I'd recommend the walbro gss342 pumps, along with the FC2 controller, rail adapter, and fuel pressure gauge.

Didn't you regret not being e85 compatible in another thread?

 

[Nightmare302]

I really don't understand why everyone wants to cheap out on fuel systems. This is literally the most important part of your car and everyone wants to go "budget". IMO this is the one place that you can't ever have too much.

 

[Pruitt146]

Just because it's budget don't mean it's no good. Check reviews on it guys are making big power with it.

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[Bdubbs]

Didn't you regret not being e85 compatible in another thread?

Sometimes yes, other times no. LOL I rarely use the power I already have. I basically use my car just for spirited driving and bumming around town.

 

[cj428mach]

Sometimes yes, other times no. LOL I rarely use the power I already have. I basically use my car just for spirited driving and bumming around town.

Don't ever ride in a car with it then or you'll be spending money lol. Depending upon how conservative your tune the jump from gas to e85 can be almost as big as going from an eaton to a bigger blower.

I had some help with my e85 tune and just going from pump gas and 17 psi to e85 tune and 17psi was a night and day difference. Then you throw in the extra boost and the virtually eliminating the chance of detonation...whats not to love.

 

[Bdubbs]

Don't ever ride in a car with it then or you'll be spending money lol. Depending upon how conservative your tune the jump from gas to e85 can be almost as big as going from an eaton to a bigger blower.

I had some help with my e85 tune and just going from pump gas and 17 psi to e85 tune and 17psi was a night and day difference. Then you throw in the extra boost and the virtually eliminating the chance of detonation...whats not to love.

LOL I probably won't. No one else in my town even has a terminator, of course there might be more at some point as the prices are less for higher mileage ones. Hell mine might even be the first one ever in this town lol. I never got to even ride in one until I bought the one I currently have.

There is a e85 pump about 5 miles out of town, and there pulling that one out soon. Was crap anyways. I'm sure at some point I'll want more power. Then I might decide on turbo and not worry about charge temps, heat soaked, and having to run a killer chiller system.

 

[Tractionless1]

I really don't understand why everyone wants to cheap out on fuel systems. This is literally the most important part of your car and everyone wants to go "budget". IMO this is the one place that you can't ever have too much.

I don't think they're cheaping out, rather not wanting to spend additional $$ on unnecessary parts. When purchasing my Lethal Return system I KNEW I'd never need 465's as I'm never going to be at 800wph. Also didn't need rails. Why spend the additional $? The other pump options aren't lesser quality, in fact on my previous enthusiast platform we avoided Walbro pumps like the plague.

 

[Tractionless1]

I appricate your input but I will not go e85. It is not very easy to get around my house and the place that do have it are not consistent. This car is driven less than 3000 miles a year and most if the time my two year is in it. I really don't even know why I'm putting money into it to make it faster lol. I guess for my budget the Lethal budget kit is my best option.

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If you're only going 3k a year get a 50 gallon drum of E85 and be set. It's worth not smelling like rotten eggs if you're catless.

I did the tvs blower swap this spring. I also went with fore level 1 return system with gss342 pumps. I'm glad I went return, clean install, fairly easy to do, and I only put on roughly 1k miles a year. Keep in mind some of the bigger pumps generate more heat, so a hobbs switch might be necessary to install with it. Basically then 1 pump will be running full time, and when needed the hobbs switch will activate the 2 pump. I didn't feel like installing that extra stuff. If I ever want more power I'll do a race gas tune.

OP: If you never plan on e85, I'd recommend the walbro gss342 pumps, along with the FC2 controller, rail adapter, and fuel pressure gauge.

I would PM TRBO VNM, Malcolmv8, or 04sleeper, they're all Fore dealers and can give you some good advice. I think the 465's are a little overkill the AEM 1200's should do close to 800rwhp. A few guys mention over heating their fuel with the 465's.. The hobbs switch is no big deal it requires running 2 extra wires which will come in your Fore kit if you order that option. I personally would go Fore if you have any issues Justin at Fore is awesome to deal with, if you order from one of the guys mentioned you'll probably save a lot. I love the way Fore built their wiring harness, its hard to explain. My Level 1 return setup was about $150 cheaper than listed on most sites.

^^ Heat from fuel pumps isn't an issue with E85 like it is with gasoline. You can run the pumps WOT at all times.

 

[Bdubbs]

^^^

True, but I was going to install the 465's and run pump gas until e85 was more available. So the hobbs switch would have been necessary.

 

[TRBO VNM]

If you're only going 3k a year get a 50 gallon drum of E85 and be set. It's worth not smelling like rotten eggs if you're catless.

^^ Heat from fuel pumps isn't an issue with E85 like it is with gasoline. You can run the pumps WOT at all times.

I will disagree to an extent. It is still an issue, just not as much of an issue. The fuel still gets hot and should be a concern. I should have checked the temps, but even after a handful of pulls on a dyno, then draining the e85 out of the tank, it was hot. that was with the AEM 50-1200's that run cooler than the 465's. That was a somewhat controlled environment being on the dyno and not out on the street driving where it will see more extreme elements. I would have to ping Justin to obtain actual numbers, but he does a lot of testing on the pumps and fuels and has the data to back up his recommendations.

 

[cj428mach]

I will disagree to an extent. It is still an issue, just not as much of an issue. The fuel still gets hot and should be a concern. I should have checked the temps, but even after a handful of pulls on a dyno, then draining the e85 out of the tank, it was hot. that was with the AEM 50-1200's that run cooler than the 465's. That was a somewhat controlled environment being on the dyno and not out on the street driving where it will see more extreme elements. I would have to ping Justin to obtain actual numbers, but he does a lot of testing on the pumps and fuels and has the data to back up his recommendations.

I don't know if you saw malcolmv8's post about fuel temps. He ran some pretty good tests and found that the pumps don't really add any noticable temperature increase to the fuel. He ran the pumps for 30min or so with out the car running and found the fuel really didn't increase much at all temperature wise. He did the same test with the engine running and found the fuel temperatures skyrocketing. The point of his post was that you should dead head your fuel lines.