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Fuel pressure cuts out, able to restart with full pressure, but cuts out again.
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<blockquote data-quote="IUP99snake" data-source="post: 11924372" data-attributes="member: 7060"><p>Wow! Rock on! That's awesome advice! </p><p></p><p>I did test the FRPS by unplugging it, both when the car was running fine and when it was having these episodes. In both cases when I unplugged the FRPS electrical connector (leaving the vacuum connected), and the fuel pressure immediately shot up from 30 to 60 psi at idle. The only difference is that during an episode, the car would still die out the same way, just a little slower because theres a little more fuel pressure. I've had a bad FRPS before, and I know exactly what the symptoms are. It throws a code that says the FRPS is bad. And you can find one off of any modular motor with a returnless fuel system. Mine went bad about 6 years ago and I pulled one off a Crown Vic at the Junkyard for 5 bucks. </p><p></p><p>It's a real intermittent issue... Let's call it a "manic episode". One day, it'll happen 5 or 10 times when I'm trying to drive home from work or something. When it first happened, I didn't know what to do, I'd pull over, let the engine stop completely, restart it, let it stall, and repeat until it wouldn't stall anymore. It always restarts very quickly, but just dies out again. I was worried I'd burn out my starter from cranking it so often. It got to the point where I started to smell my starter motor.. (Remember when you were a kid and you hooked up a 9V battery to a little motor that was supposed to run on AA's? It made that smell.)</p><p></p><p>But now that I've become more familiar with the problem, I don't even have to stop, or even let the motor stop spinning to get it restarted. I'll be going down the road at cruising rpm and it'll have an episode, and all I have to do is just leave it in gear, cycle the ignition back ONE click (not going back so far as to lock the steering wheel), and then forward to the on position, and the car will fire right back up. And by cycling the ignition off and on in gear without letting it stop spinning and having to restart it completely, I don't lose the power steering or brakes when I'm going down the road..It's almost as if I just let off the gas and was coasting in gear, followed by a slight surge as the car fires back up as soon as the ignition is cycled off and on. </p><p></p><p>It got real bad on Saturday when I had to cycle the ignition off and on during most of the drive back from work. Then all the sudden, it's fine and I was able to drive the rest of the way home with no problem. Even if I turn on the A/C or the headlights. I was going to get the codes scanned yesterday to see what it would lead me to, but the check engine light went out all by itself! That was a first! </p><p></p><p>It's not like the A/C or headlights trigger the episode every time. It'll have an episode without the A/C or headlights. But when it's happening and I turn on the A/C or headlights, that'll immediately trigger it to stall sooner than it normally would during an episode. It's like the A/C or headlights exacerbate the problem, but only during an episode. The A/C and lights don't "cause it", but they make it worse when it's happening. But when it's not having an episode, I can turn on the A/C and headlights and it'll run fine. I've never been able to induce the problem with the A/C or headlights when the car is running normally.</p><p></p><p>But as a side note with the A/C, a few weeks ago, the A/C wouldn't work for a good 15-20 minutes a couple times without any other issues. Both times, the A/C came back on eventually. I thought it might have been low on coolant, maybe when the engine got warmer, it raised the refrigerant pressure just enough to pass the threshold of the pressure switch and allow the A/C to function. So, I topped it off with a just a smidge of refrigerant one day, careful not to overfill it. Since the A/C was working when I topped it off, I have no idea if it was low refrigerant or an intermittent electrical issue causing the A/C to malfunction those two times. The A/C has always worked since then, however. </p><p></p><p><strong>But in every case when this happens, the right turn signal indicator illuminates without flashing, and the check engine light comes on. </strong></p><p></p><p>Speaking of the right turn signal indicator being illuminated during it's "manic episodes", I have had other problems with the right turn signal that I thought were unrelated. First, when I signaled right, it would flash faster during a right signal as if one of the bulbs were blown. But I checked and both front and rear bulbs were fine. So, I thought I'd need a new turn signal relay. But a few days after that, I was still getting the same faster flash rate and the front right signal bulb wouldn't blink at all (but the parking light worked), which led me to believe that one of the filaments in the bulb was blown. But before I had a chance to change the bulb or the flasher relay, it all started working. It blinked the same speed as the left side, and the bulb was working. WTF???? But I still get the constant right side signal illumination if the car is in the middle of an episode.</p><p></p><p>So, about the CCRM. I did some research on it from other forums and I was able to find other people with similar issues, whether it be a V6, GT, or Cobra. It could be a loose soldered connection or maybe a rusty or worn relay in the CCRM. I used to work at a car audio shop installing stereos and remote starters and I've seen tons of bad relays and loose connections. I'm really good at soldering, so if I can find a defective connection, I have no problems fixing it. </p><p></p><p>I found a couple forum posts that had diagnostic procedures for the CCRM, but mostly it had to do with the radiator fan. </p><p>Here: <a href="http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/v6-tech/11477-cooling-fan-constant-control-relay-module-ccrm.html" target="_blank">Cooling Fan/Constant Control Relay Module (CCRM) - Ford Mustang Forums</a></p><p>Here: <a href="http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/v6-tech/347491-1999-mustang-3-8-possbile-ccrm-problem.html" target="_blank">1999 mustang 3.8 possbile CCRM problem - Ford Mustang Forums</a></p><p>Here's a description and product listing for a CCRM for V8 mustangs: <a href="http://www.speedconcepts.net/product_info.php?products_id=920" target="_blank">CCRM (Constant Control Relay Module) fits 1999-2004 V8 Mustangs, Speed Concepts</a></p><p></p><p>Even though the CCRM may be different for V6 and V8 mustangs, they still control the same functions and could still malfunction in the same way. </p><p></p><p>I just had an "ah hah moment!" Being that the radiator fan comes on when the A/C is on and/or when the engine is hot, the whole problem could be boiling back to the radiator fan circuit causing a malfunction on the CCRM..which is causing either the fuel pressure to cut out. The only reason why I suspected it to be a direct issue with the fuel system is because that's the only thing I can precisely monitor since I have a fuel pressure gauge. </p><p></p><p>It always happens randomly, except for once when it was running perfectly fine on a very empty tank of gas, but when I put a half tank in it, it stalled the first time I started it back up at the gas station. Next time I put gas in it, I'll leave it running and see what happens. But now that I think about it.... it has been raining... A LOT.. here... for the past 2 weeks. It doesn't necessarily happen in the rain, but since the CCRM is in the fenderwell, it could be getting exposed to moisture, which can linger and cause problems days after it has been driven in the rain. </p><p></p><p>Now that I've seen a picture of the CCRM, where it's located, and what it controls, I'm fairly confident that this is the problem. I'm going to do a bunch of these diagnostic tests on it, but since the problem is intermittent, I won't be able to detect the problem unless I test it when the car is having an episode. </p><p></p><p>One thing I could use some more clarification with regard to the CCRM: I've also heard it being called the BCM or "Body Control Module", which is often mentioned interchangeably and mistaken for the GEM or "Generic Electronic Module". I know it's definitely not the GEM because the GEM controls a completely different set of functions, such as the dome light, chime, the single touch drivers side power window, etc.... rather than the fan, A/C, and fuel system. Is the CCRM the same as the BCM, or are they two different pieces? </p><p></p><p>The CCRM is in the passenger side fenderwell near the headlight, I believe, Since I have all that area cleared out for easy access to my blow-thru MAF and power pipe, I should be able to access the CCRM fairly easily. I'll disconnect it and let the car sit for a few days to see if the battery still drains. I'll pull it apart and inspect it. So, you're saying that the CCRM just has relays that are soldered onto a PCB instead of plugging in? Are there any microchips, resistors, or capacitors inside it, or is it only relays? If it's only relays, I could even bypass the CCRM entirely by wiring up my own relays. Or, I could solder in relay wiring harnesses to the PCB so I could remote mount the relays in a more accessible and environmentally friendly location under the hood. Or, I could just go to the junkyard and replace it for $20 bucks from any other 99+ modular V8 Ford vehicle. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, thanks for the breakthrough advice. I think this is gonna be it. </p><p></p><p>Next time the car has an episode, I'm gonna try to take some video of it. And if I need to repair the CCRM, I'll post pics and steps. I'll keep you posted.</p><p></p><p>Sorry again for the long post. Back to work!</p><p></p><p>Homer</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="IUP99snake, post: 11924372, member: 7060"] Wow! Rock on! That's awesome advice! I did test the FRPS by unplugging it, both when the car was running fine and when it was having these episodes. In both cases when I unplugged the FRPS electrical connector (leaving the vacuum connected), and the fuel pressure immediately shot up from 30 to 60 psi at idle. The only difference is that during an episode, the car would still die out the same way, just a little slower because theres a little more fuel pressure. I've had a bad FRPS before, and I know exactly what the symptoms are. It throws a code that says the FRPS is bad. And you can find one off of any modular motor with a returnless fuel system. Mine went bad about 6 years ago and I pulled one off a Crown Vic at the Junkyard for 5 bucks. It's a real intermittent issue... Let's call it a "manic episode". One day, it'll happen 5 or 10 times when I'm trying to drive home from work or something. When it first happened, I didn't know what to do, I'd pull over, let the engine stop completely, restart it, let it stall, and repeat until it wouldn't stall anymore. It always restarts very quickly, but just dies out again. I was worried I'd burn out my starter from cranking it so often. It got to the point where I started to smell my starter motor.. (Remember when you were a kid and you hooked up a 9V battery to a little motor that was supposed to run on AA's? It made that smell.) But now that I've become more familiar with the problem, I don't even have to stop, or even let the motor stop spinning to get it restarted. I'll be going down the road at cruising rpm and it'll have an episode, and all I have to do is just leave it in gear, cycle the ignition back ONE click (not going back so far as to lock the steering wheel), and then forward to the on position, and the car will fire right back up. And by cycling the ignition off and on in gear without letting it stop spinning and having to restart it completely, I don't lose the power steering or brakes when I'm going down the road..It's almost as if I just let off the gas and was coasting in gear, followed by a slight surge as the car fires back up as soon as the ignition is cycled off and on. It got real bad on Saturday when I had to cycle the ignition off and on during most of the drive back from work. Then all the sudden, it's fine and I was able to drive the rest of the way home with no problem. Even if I turn on the A/C or the headlights. I was going to get the codes scanned yesterday to see what it would lead me to, but the check engine light went out all by itself! That was a first! It's not like the A/C or headlights trigger the episode every time. It'll have an episode without the A/C or headlights. But when it's happening and I turn on the A/C or headlights, that'll immediately trigger it to stall sooner than it normally would during an episode. It's like the A/C or headlights exacerbate the problem, but only during an episode. The A/C and lights don't "cause it", but they make it worse when it's happening. But when it's not having an episode, I can turn on the A/C and headlights and it'll run fine. I've never been able to induce the problem with the A/C or headlights when the car is running normally. But as a side note with the A/C, a few weeks ago, the A/C wouldn't work for a good 15-20 minutes a couple times without any other issues. Both times, the A/C came back on eventually. I thought it might have been low on coolant, maybe when the engine got warmer, it raised the refrigerant pressure just enough to pass the threshold of the pressure switch and allow the A/C to function. So, I topped it off with a just a smidge of refrigerant one day, careful not to overfill it. Since the A/C was working when I topped it off, I have no idea if it was low refrigerant or an intermittent electrical issue causing the A/C to malfunction those two times. The A/C has always worked since then, however. [B]But in every case when this happens, the right turn signal indicator illuminates without flashing, and the check engine light comes on. [/B] Speaking of the right turn signal indicator being illuminated during it's "manic episodes", I have had other problems with the right turn signal that I thought were unrelated. First, when I signaled right, it would flash faster during a right signal as if one of the bulbs were blown. But I checked and both front and rear bulbs were fine. So, I thought I'd need a new turn signal relay. But a few days after that, I was still getting the same faster flash rate and the front right signal bulb wouldn't blink at all (but the parking light worked), which led me to believe that one of the filaments in the bulb was blown. But before I had a chance to change the bulb or the flasher relay, it all started working. It blinked the same speed as the left side, and the bulb was working. WTF???? But I still get the constant right side signal illumination if the car is in the middle of an episode. So, about the CCRM. I did some research on it from other forums and I was able to find other people with similar issues, whether it be a V6, GT, or Cobra. It could be a loose soldered connection or maybe a rusty or worn relay in the CCRM. I used to work at a car audio shop installing stereos and remote starters and I've seen tons of bad relays and loose connections. I'm really good at soldering, so if I can find a defective connection, I have no problems fixing it. I found a couple forum posts that had diagnostic procedures for the CCRM, but mostly it had to do with the radiator fan. Here: [url=http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/v6-tech/11477-cooling-fan-constant-control-relay-module-ccrm.html]Cooling Fan/Constant Control Relay Module (CCRM) - Ford Mustang Forums[/url] Here: [url=http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/v6-tech/347491-1999-mustang-3-8-possbile-ccrm-problem.html]1999 mustang 3.8 possbile CCRM problem - Ford Mustang Forums[/url] Here's a description and product listing for a CCRM for V8 mustangs: [url=http://www.speedconcepts.net/product_info.php?products_id=920]CCRM (Constant Control Relay Module) fits 1999-2004 V8 Mustangs, Speed Concepts[/url] Even though the CCRM may be different for V6 and V8 mustangs, they still control the same functions and could still malfunction in the same way. I just had an "ah hah moment!" Being that the radiator fan comes on when the A/C is on and/or when the engine is hot, the whole problem could be boiling back to the radiator fan circuit causing a malfunction on the CCRM..which is causing either the fuel pressure to cut out. The only reason why I suspected it to be a direct issue with the fuel system is because that's the only thing I can precisely monitor since I have a fuel pressure gauge. It always happens randomly, except for once when it was running perfectly fine on a very empty tank of gas, but when I put a half tank in it, it stalled the first time I started it back up at the gas station. Next time I put gas in it, I'll leave it running and see what happens. But now that I think about it.... it has been raining... A LOT.. here... for the past 2 weeks. It doesn't necessarily happen in the rain, but since the CCRM is in the fenderwell, it could be getting exposed to moisture, which can linger and cause problems days after it has been driven in the rain. Now that I've seen a picture of the CCRM, where it's located, and what it controls, I'm fairly confident that this is the problem. I'm going to do a bunch of these diagnostic tests on it, but since the problem is intermittent, I won't be able to detect the problem unless I test it when the car is having an episode. One thing I could use some more clarification with regard to the CCRM: I've also heard it being called the BCM or "Body Control Module", which is often mentioned interchangeably and mistaken for the GEM or "Generic Electronic Module". I know it's definitely not the GEM because the GEM controls a completely different set of functions, such as the dome light, chime, the single touch drivers side power window, etc.... rather than the fan, A/C, and fuel system. Is the CCRM the same as the BCM, or are they two different pieces? The CCRM is in the passenger side fenderwell near the headlight, I believe, Since I have all that area cleared out for easy access to my blow-thru MAF and power pipe, I should be able to access the CCRM fairly easily. I'll disconnect it and let the car sit for a few days to see if the battery still drains. I'll pull it apart and inspect it. So, you're saying that the CCRM just has relays that are soldered onto a PCB instead of plugging in? Are there any microchips, resistors, or capacitors inside it, or is it only relays? If it's only relays, I could even bypass the CCRM entirely by wiring up my own relays. Or, I could solder in relay wiring harnesses to the PCB so I could remote mount the relays in a more accessible and environmentally friendly location under the hood. Or, I could just go to the junkyard and replace it for $20 bucks from any other 99+ modular V8 Ford vehicle. Anyway, thanks for the breakthrough advice. I think this is gonna be it. Next time the car has an episode, I'm gonna try to take some video of it. And if I need to repair the CCRM, I'll post pics and steps. I'll keep you posted. Sorry again for the long post. Back to work! Homer [/QUOTE]
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Fuel pressure cuts out, able to restart with full pressure, but cuts out again.
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