Yes, it can be as low as 70%.
That why factory cars are flex tune, and not tuned exclusively for 85% ethenol.
Flex Fuel Sensor
- Thread starter Deceptive
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That why factory cars are flex tune, and not tuned exclusively for 85% ethenol.
That's outdated.....it can actually be as low as 53% by law IIRC.
But back to the point....lthat still doesn't help you if the sensor is reading 77%....,but a test kit pump side is actually indicating 87%. The sensor is way off.....then to compound the issue on a true flex fuel computer....its communicating erroneous data. 87% ethanol content is going to run LEAN versus 77%. I'd hate for the computer to be told a fuel is richer than it really is in reality.
hand measuring is extremely inaccurate. From filling the tube, to reading the lines, to the spacing of the lines. Also the tune for E85 and the Tune for say E80 is not a huge huge difference and when running dual Widebands and auto tune if I start to run lean or rich my computer automatically changes the tune to compensate.
Hand measuring CAN be extremely inaccurate, if done correctly it's very accurate, much more than the gauges. I reached out to Innovative about this and they basically said that a +/- 7% inaccuracy was acceptable (mine's 13%)
I have E98 and quality E85 at the pump locally, I test it by hand and it's true 85/98. But my innovative gauge is still way off.
Using the dual widebands and autotune is fine, the error in the reading doesn't really matter when it compensates based off the Wideband, but without that using the gauge to keep tabs on ethanol quality is a joke.
Sounds like user error. It works VERY well when the steps you take to conduct the test are sound. You can't just toss stuff in there. I use distilled water, a syringe for carefully adding fluid to the BOTTOM of the meniscus curve.....then a gentle roll over of the tube to mix. You do not need to shake it vigorously
Garbage In, Garbage Out
I've tested a friends can of VP X85 with the test tube following the above steps.....came out on the dot 85%
what I am saying is 99% of the guys that do measure are having human errors in their tests. The only true test, which most guys don’t do, would be doing as you said and use a syringe and distilled water but that still doesn’t help that most people don’t know how to correctly read a test tube.
The big thing a test tube can’t help you with if you were running E80 and you still had 5 gallons left and you added 7 gallons of E85. This is the situation most people will be in.
The big thing a test tube can’t help you with if you were running E80 and you still had 5 gallons left and you added 7 gallons of E85. This is the situation most people will be in.
That's actually pretty easy math:
(5/12) X 80 = 33.33
(7/12) X 85 = 49.58
33.33 + 49.58 = 82.91
But yes, the idea of the sensor is awesome. Who the hell wants to test? No one. But the sensor/gauge has to be relatively accurate or people are going to question the product. If widebands were that far off right out of the box, people would be pissed.
Did you check that price?
$350 before fittings
-J
Editing this as it’s actually not that bad if it outflows -10 line and is designed to adapt directly into the feed line. Just need to find a place in the -10 feed line and maybe max two AN adapters.
Also, their spokesmodel page is noteworthy.
-J
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I do like the idea of a gauge.
I actually do know how to accurately test, but it also gets old, hence the beauty of a gauge for street fun.
Still, I do want to ask why people think running E82 on a safe E85 tune is a problem?
That’s the beauty of Ethanol, a huge tuning window.
On my car, I run VP X85 for track days and usually 50/50 or a little more X85 then pump E85, which I would test before a dyno session, but I don’t stress using pump for cruising on the street.
I also searched for and talked to gas stations that due a large volume of E85. E is usually cheaper than gasoline, so once they switch to summer blend, we consistently get high 80s out of the 2 main stations we use.
-J
This right here. Even if your at "E" you still got 2-3 gallons in the system.
Also, great, innovates gauge is off. What about the actual GM sensor?
I don't think e82 on an e85 tune is not safe. You are correct, the ethanol safe spot is large. But I was talking about the reports of the innovate being so far off. More like .10. And even .10 isn't going to blow up a street car by any means.....but that just seemed IMO a long ways off the mark. I was thinking +/- .03 ought to be the range.....
But maybe it's not and they're all like that. That's why I was asking earlier about the other brands out there like the zietronix, or whatever is available. What brands do the auto manufacturers use oem these days? Maybe this ethanol detecting technology would have to be so expensive to be any more accurate it wouldn't be cost effective. The auto manufacturers don't care for any more accuracy because their dual widebands and modern computer funnels it to the sweetspot anyways
Most aftermarket solutions use the GM sensor from what I’ve seen.
My buddy is very knowledgeable and he runs an aftermarket gauge (I think Innovate) in his E85 BRZ.
Last time he filled up where we tested 87 on manual testing, his gauge said 83-84.
We attributed that to whatever was in there previously, but we’re happy to see it read a few points under. Rather be under and safe.
I’m personally still going to run the good stuff when full out, but I’d like the gauge to tell me if I get stuck with a shit tank fill like E70 or lower.
-J
Just check your owners manual and look for the tank capacity. When you fill up the next time, subtract the gallons pumped from the capacity.
If flex fuel reads the O2 sensors and adjusts Lambda/AFR based on parameters set in the tune, who cares if the ethanol sensor/gauge is a bit off?
When you run 93, are you overly concerned about it being true 93?
Unless you are tuning on a very narrow margin with pump E85, which I don't know why you would, I don't think a 10%variance is much of an issue.
My car is not flex fuel yet. I always run pump E85, which in AZ is only E54.
When you run 93, are you overly concerned about it being true 93?
Unless you are tuning on a very narrow margin with pump E85, which I don't know why you would, I don't think a 10%variance is much of an issue.
My car is not flex fuel yet. I always run pump E85, which in AZ is only E54.
Good point on AZ fuel, it doesn’t matter as it’s always E54. Much better than 91/93 at least.
I look at the gauge as a safety factor just to make sure you don’t get a bad tank. Even better than pump 91/93 risk.
-J
I look at the gauge as a safety factor just to make sure you don’t get a bad tank. Even better than pump 91/93 risk.
-J
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