• Welcome to SVTPerformance!

EV & Reality

Discussion in 'Road Side Pub' started by Weather Man, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. Dirks9901

    Dirks9901 Paint>Vinyl Premium Member Established Member

    Messages:
    3,827
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Location:
    Colorado
    I understand that is a concern. Point is there isn't a "push" to further develop Hydrogen. EV is more viable on the surface level/end product IMO. EV technology is pushed even though they haven't quite figured out:

    How to mine for the material/lithium safely and build them to where the net affect on the environment isn't worse then ICE.

    oh and do it without being devastating to the environment/climate which they claim to care so much about

    oh and having a plan to build a "green" infrastructure to power them (because it pointless if we can't)

    oh and the massive undertaking to recycle EV car/Batteries, only after they figure out how to recycle them.

    Maybe "they" will figure this out and maybe they won't before the earth is set on fire in 12 years. There isn't a guarantee. EV is the future only because we were told its going to be and not necessarily because it was the best choice when we see this shake out on 10 years.
     
  2. Weather Man

    Weather Man Persistance Is A Bitch Premium Member Established Member Top Shelf Gentlemen

    Messages:
    17,327
    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Location:
    MN
    The D's have shown time and again that facts don't matter, feelings do.
     
  3. RedVenom48

    RedVenom48 Ghost Editor-in-Chief Premium Member Established Member Beer Money Bros.

    Messages:
    7,560
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2014
    Location:
    Arizona
    FTFY
     
  4. VRYALT3R3D

    VRYALT3R3D Well-Known Member Established Member

    Messages:
    5,451
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2012
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    The reality is a bit different with commercial vehicles. There are quite a few hydrogen trucks coming on the market and many more being developed. It makes a lot more sense for commercial use.
     
  5. L8APEX

    L8APEX Well-Known Member Premium Member Established Member

    Messages:
    2,093
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Location:
    Doo-Dah
    I'm waiting for some idiot politician to say something like "Lets put windmills on the electric cars so they generate power as they go!"
     
  6. SecondhandSnake

    SecondhandSnake Well-Known Member Established Member

    Messages:
    1,242
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Location:
    Columbus, IN
    There will be a point that service will catch up to the electronic cars. The same way you can buy off brand China parts and even turbos, you'll be able to get cheap copy parts for whatever you need. And by that time you'll have third party software options to make things work, the same way people run standalone modules and things like Linux now. They keep building better mousetraps, but the mouse will eventually outsmart them.

    Hydrogen is being heavily invested in, primarily for heavy and long range vehicles. Toyota specifically still believes that it's going to be the future.

    The stumbling block here is infrastructure. You can put in a charging station almost anywhere, but there's no hydrogen supply on every corner. We've already got power plants scattered across the country, but not hydrogen plants. Not to mention the hardware is extremely expensive when it comes to pressure vessels and compressors, and it takes up a lot of real estate on the vehicle.

    I'll also point out that hydrogen also has the benefit of a much faster fill versus electric. With a big enough compressor it can be close to gasoline speed.
     
  7. quad

    quad Well-Known Member Established Member

    Messages:
    5,717
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Location:
    Detroit
    Yes and long term the goal is to reduce the world's population.

    Put yourself in the shoes of the ultra wealthy and uber wealthy elite. I'm talking about wealth exceeding Bezos and Musk (they are not really the wealthiest on the planet). Why do they need billions of people when many jobs will be automated in the future? Robotic technology and AI will only improve and one day there will be humanoids.

    A very large human population could turn on them and take away their wealth, power and influence as inequality grows. There is the risk of political dissent. Look at the USA where conservatives and Trump followers are now labeled domestic terrorists and white supremacist. They are even distrusting fellow politicians that are pro Second Amendment!

    Wiping out a large portion of the population is advantageous for the elite. Hell it would even benefit the common people because there would be more resources for everyone to share.
     
  8. Rb0891

    Rb0891 Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

    Messages:
    874
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2020
    Location:
    Indiana
    Like Kingsmen...
     
  9. jpro

    jpro Disoriented Poster Established Member

    Messages:
    5,028
    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Location:
    Vegas
    I didn’t read all the comments in this thread so I apologize if it’s already been covered but I have a serious question...if everyone is plugging in their EV, can the power grid handle that?


    Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
     
  10. Rb0891

    Rb0891 Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

    Messages:
    874
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2020
    Location:
    Indiana
    No. But don't worry, when it gets too much we can just hype Covid-xx and make everyone stay home.
     
    me32 and jpro like this.
  11. mustangbee

    mustangbee Well-Known Member Established Member

    Messages:
    2,651
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Location:
    cruising
    The actual reality is EVs are never leaving. We're literally in the training wheels phase with lithium-ion batteries and just barely moving to the holy grail of solid state battery, smaller, far less materials, more powerful, far more range. Toyota, Ford, Panasonic, Hyundai, and GM already have huge money in these next level batteries. They're already running transit buses in a France.

    What most of you are doing is focusing on the negative and ignoring that by the time the OPs doomsday EV scenario comes around, the next generation of batteries will be here and if you think lithium was the pinnacle, you're sadly mistaken. It's not even close to solid states once they work out the remaining kinks. Toyota and others will have these on the roads by 2024.

    UK cobalt-free solid-state battery technology claims major cost efficiencies | S&P Global Platts
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  12. Rb0891

    Rb0891 Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

    Messages:
    874
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2020
    Location:
    Indiana
    That is interesting and I appreciate some actual information rather than someone's wishful thinking. I notice they were testing for grid storage. Wonder if there are any downsides to this to overcome like more weight or something. Seems promising.
     
  13. Weather Man

    Weather Man Persistance Is A Bitch Premium Member Established Member Top Shelf Gentlemen

    Messages:
    17,327
    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Location:
    MN
    No problem with EV, problem is the mandates. Problem is that EV mileage is calculated assuming energy generation and transmission to your EV is 100%. Problem is a lot of lab claims that can't be scaled. Problem is that when they decrease certain metals, energy density takes a shit. BTW, they have been working on lithium batteries for over 3 decades, hardly training wheel phase.
     
    SSSSSSSSSSSSVT likes this.
  14. Rb0891

    Rb0891 Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

    Messages:
    874
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2020
    Location:
    Indiana
    I think he meant evs were in the early stages of development, not lithium batteries. And certainly solid state batteries being in the early stages. You are right on the lab claims though. Let's see a big one, working...
     
  15. Weather Man

    Weather Man Persistance Is A Bitch Premium Member Established Member Top Shelf Gentlemen

    Messages:
    17,327
    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Location:
    MN
    I just try to imagine block after block in MSP-STP where people have no garage and must park on the street. 10's of thousands of cars with a 220 cord running out to the car on a -25F night. No wind or solar and the "legacy" grid has to supply it all. When the power goes off at -25F.....
     
  16. Rb0891

    Rb0891 Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

    Messages:
    874
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2020
    Location:
    Indiana
    Actually 3veryone will have to buy that f150 with the generator to charge their ev. Lol
     
    Fat Boss and SSSSSSSSSSSSVT like this.
  17. SecondhandSnake

    SecondhandSnake Well-Known Member Established Member

    Messages:
    1,242
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Location:
    Columbus, IN
    As it is now- no. One small local fleet went EV, only to realize that the local power company needed to install a whole new substation to the tune of several hundred million dollars to support it. It turned out to be a much more expensive endeavor than originally anticipated.

    That's the thing- by the time EVs are ubiquitous that ownership is going to be obsolete. The future is going to be autonomous ride share services. Like Uber/Lyft, but no drivers, and the OEM owns the vehicle. You subscribe to their app, and can summon their vehicles to take you from point A to B. Lots of OEMs are already dipping their toes in it and planning around it, including Ford.
     
  18. Weather Man

    Weather Man Persistance Is A Bitch Premium Member Established Member Top Shelf Gentlemen

    Messages:
    17,327
    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Location:
    MN
    Could see some aspect of that in urban corridors. If OEM's are dipping toes in it is for lip service. You don't support selling FEWER cars if you make them. The whole driverless car deal is going to run into a buzz saw of litigation with the accidents to come. The lawyers will be going for the deep pockets. How many self driving cars do you have to sell with multiple 100+ million dollar judgements against you? Run over a couple of soccer mom kids and the bans will be up faster than a politician reaching for your wallet.
     
  19. SecondhandSnake

    SecondhandSnake Well-Known Member Established Member

    Messages:
    1,242
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Location:
    Columbus, IN
    They can sell fewer cars and make more money because the business model has fundamentally changed. It's no longer making X% margin per item. Why have something that is tied to a physical quantity when you can turn it into a monthly subscription fee that goes on indefinitely? Everything is already transitioning to that model. They can cut out the middlemen of repair facilities, dealerships, etc... And they can serve the same number of customers with less physical cars. You may only need one actual car for five, ten, or more people to run the errands they want. That's like selling one car five, ten or more times and only having to bare the cost of building one.

    No argument on the lawsuits. In fact we've already seen that massively put the brakes on development that had them on the road back in 2018. They were all over...then one accident and everyone took one very big step back. Purely speculation but I imagine that law/precedent will get sorted out in time, no doubt in the interest of whoever can line politicians pockets the most. Whether that's the lawyer or auto maker lobby, we'll have to see.
     
  20. Weather Man

    Weather Man Persistance Is A Bitch Premium Member Established Member Top Shelf Gentlemen

    Messages:
    17,327
    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Location:
    MN
    Outside of dense urban area's, I just don't think the subscriber model is attractive to most Americans.
     

Share This Page