EcoBoost - Valve Coking Prevention

[Lambeau]

@SID297

Instead of me screwing up Trav's thread on reviewing the '22 Expedition...

Full Size Fun | 2022 Expedition XLT Review

Full Size Fun | 2022 Expedition XLT Review The 2022 Ford is all about maximization. You can maximize your capability, comfort, capacity, etc. Few new vehicles allow owners to haul more people and stuff, in more comfort, to more places than the Expedition. Ford recently loaned us fairly rare...

www.svtperformance.com

...I'm starting this thread about EB's and the backside of intake valves coking as a result of direct injection.

In the Expedition thread above, Travis responded to several questions I asked regarding this issue and my '19 Explorer Sport w/3.5L EB, w/53k miles. I had installed a JLT/OSC Oil Separator on it at 8k mikes. I also do my own oil changes on it from 2.5k-4K miles using Mobil1 and Motorcraft FL500S Filters.

Repost of #12 with Travis's response:

Q: Do you have any concerns about Ford continuing to put this 3.5L EB in vehicles?
A: No

Q: Does this have EB still have direct inject?
A: Yes

Q: Has Ford solved the valve coking issues on the EB?
A: Yes

Q: Does this EB also have the internal water pump?
A: No

Q: Any other observations would be appreciated.
A: The valve coking can be alleviated with 3 things on most new EB engines. First, do 3,000 mile oil changes with a decent oil (I've been running Costco synthetic, but will probably switch to synthetic diesel oil once I run out my current supply). Second, run an oil seperator. Third, on the EB engines that have 2 fuel systems - get a custom tune that utilizes the port injectors much more. They will help clean the valves.

I have a couple more questions for Travis, and anyone else, so please jump in:

Q: Totally understand your point about optimizing and utilizing the Port Injection with a tune. What tune(s) do you recommend?
(It's my wife's DD. At this point, not sure if I want to keep it for the long haul, or bail. It's really been an excellent SUV with no major issues.)


Q: Is this something I can do myself?


Q: Will a tune void the extended warranty I have with Allstate?

 

[SID297]

I don't think the 19 Explorer 3.5 has port injection, so the tune option isn't going to work for you.

 

[Relaxed Chaos]

According to folks at Amsoil, no oil will prevent the carbon build up on the backside of the intake valves. If catch-cans were a cheap simple fix don't you think they'd be in production cars? Catch cans don't solve this either. This is carbon from combustion, not oil from the intake track (which is a different problem if your intake air has that much oil in it. In an Ecoboost, oil in your intake means your turbo seals are leaking). Valves do not seal perfectly, so on each combustion stroke a tiny amount of carbon works it's way and deposits onto the backside of the valves.

I've used the CRC chemical valve cleaning method once per year to minimize the build up on my SHO. It takes about an hour and is simple.

Adding port injection sprays the backside of the valves, keeping them cleaner. Ford added this, but I'm not sure which year each Ecoboost received this fix


On a side note, E46 BMWs had oil separators in the EGR system to keep oil out of the combustion process. In the winter during warm up cycles there is lots of water vapor generated that condenses on cold surfaces and in the oil, creating an oily mayo or smegma. The water in this smegma freezes inside the oil separator, cracking it. This crack would allow the intake vacuum to suck all the oil out of the pan and burn it, in about 20 seconds at freeway speeds leading to engine failure. The next version put a heater on the oil separator, which occasionally would fail and not turn off, igniting and burning down the car/garage/house. Good times.

 

[OX1]

I don't think the 19 Explorer 3.5 has port injection, so the tune option isn't going to work for you.

Tune option kills warrantee. Sad you would have to do that to eliminate valve deposits.

I'm going meth on my Fusion, mostly for a bit more perf, but hoping this slows down or eliminates valve deposit.

 

[03cobra#694]

I've used the CRC chemical valve cleaning method once per year to minimize the build up on my SHO.

Just started doing this on my 18 2.7, even though it's not supposed to be an issue on this year.

 

[Lambeau]

According to folks at Amsoil, no oil will prevent the carbon build up on the backside of the intake valves. If catch-cans were a cheap simple fix don't you think they'd be in production cars? Catch cans don't solve this either. This is carbon from combustion, not oil from the intake track (which is a different problem if your intake air has that much oil in it. In an Ecoboost, oil in your intake means your turbo seals are leaking). Valves do not seal perfectly, so on each combustion stroke a tiny amount of carbon works it's way and deposits onto the backside of the valves.

I've used the CRC chemical valve cleaning method once per year to minimize the build up on my SHO. It takes about an hour and is simple.

Adding port injection sprays the backside of the valves, keeping them cleaner. Ford added this, but I'm not sure which year each Ecoboost received this fix


On a side note, E46 BMWs had oil separators in the EGR system to keep oil out of the combustion process. In the winter during warm up cycles there is lots of water vapor generated that condenses on cold surfaces and in the oil, creating an oily mayo or smegma. The water in this smegma freezes inside the oil separator, cracking it. This crack would allow the intake vacuum to suck all the oil out of the pan and burn it, in about 20 seconds at freeway speeds leading to engine failure. The next version put a heater on the oil separator, which occasionally would fail and not turn off, igniting and burning down the car/garage/house. Good times.

Can you post a link to the CRC valve cleaning method?

 

[Relaxed Chaos]

Can you post a link to the CRC valve cleaning method?

CRC® GDI IVD® Intake Valve & Turbo Cleaner, 11 Wt Oz

Do you want to remove carbon buildup from the intake valve of your GDI engine without the expense of a costly tear down? CRC GDI IVD® Intake Valve & Turbo Cleaner is the solution you need! This intake valve cleaner uses a specialized formula to break down carbon deposits that choke your...

www.crcindustries.com

On my SHO there are plenty of vacuum quick connects on the intake manifold to choose from.

 

[SID297]

Tune option kills warrantee. Sad you would have to do that to eliminate valve deposits.

I'm going meth on my Fusion, mostly for a bit more perf, but hoping this slows down or eliminates valve deposit.

I have never lost a warranty claim due to a tune.

 

[Lambeau]

CRC® GDI IVD® Intake Valve & Turbo Cleaner, 11 Wt Oz

Do you want to remove carbon buildup from the intake valve of your GDI engine without the expense of a costly tear down? CRC GDI IVD® Intake Valve & Turbo Cleaner is the solution you need! This intake valve cleaner uses a specialized formula to break down carbon deposits that choke your...

www.crcindustries.com

On my SHO there are plenty of vacuum quick connects on the intake manifold to choose from.

Thanks!

 

[OX1]

I have never lost a warranty claim due to a tune.

You've blown an engine with a tune installed and Ford paid without some special Ford contact or a SUPER relationship with a certain dealer (IE, you've bought cars from them for 20 years, they know you by name when you walk in, and you've spent thousands on maint, etc...)?

 

[SID297]

You've blown an engine with a tune installed and Ford paid without some special Ford contact or a SUPER relationship with a certain dealer (IE, you've bought cars from them for 20 years, they know you by name when you walk in, and you've spent thousands on maint, etc...)?

I've never had to warranty any blown engine for myself. I have had warranty work done on several highly modified vehicles without issue. It's not a cheap endeavor for a dealer/manufacturer to wrongfully deny a warranty claim in SC. It opens them up to triple damages plus attorneys fees. Wanna guess what I'd bill per hour for an adventure like that?

 

[DSG2003Mach1]

Just throwing it out there Ford has cautioned against some of those sprays with concerns about elevated exhaust gas temps and what that might mean for the turbo and cats

 

[Black02GT]

Great, now I'm paranoid both ways.

 

[BlackStang00]

Op your 19 Explorer has an internal water pump. I believe 20 was a changeover year.

 

[PhoenixM3]

Just started doing this on my 18 2.7, even though it's not supposed to be an issue on this year.

My wife's Fusion Sport has a dead cylinder just out of warranty. Intake valve or valve seat damage due to, guessing here - a piece of of carbon from the valve stem breaking off and getting caught in between the valve and seat. Still trying to determine whether I have the means to pull the engine, yank the head and have it repaired, or buy a used low mileage long block. Lots of special tools required for this PITA repair.

 

[Lambeau]

Op your 19 Explorer has an internal water pump. I believe 20 was a changeover year.

Yup. The changeover occurred with the Explorer redesign and engine position going from transverse to inline like the F-150s.

From what I've read and seen in videos, a leaking water pump is not that easy to detect. You gotta keep an eye on the weep hole on the block.
When the water pump fails, water gets in the oil. To access the water pump, the front of the engine has to be removed. Repair cost is $3k-$4k. I'll find the video and post it.

It's another reason, besides the PTU issue, why I purchased the Allstate extended warranty (EW). It's 7 years, 125k miles. Our local Ford dealer prefers that to Fords EW. At that time, that's the brand they carried beside Fords.

To be clear, Nick, @13COBRA , gave me a very competitive price on a Zurich EW. I went with Allstate since they would more than likely be doing the repairs, and are local. That dealership has since changed hands, and now sells Zurich.

So what I'm saying is Zurich is a good EW company, so check with Nick.

FWIW, I've heard from at least 3 sources I trust, that Ford is difficult to deal with on EW, and why I did not buy from them.

 

[13COBRA]

Yup. The changeover occurred with the Explorer redesign and engine position going from transverse to inline like the F-150s.

From what I've read and seen in videos, a leaking water pump is not that easy to detect. You gotta keep an eye on the weep hole on the block.
When the water pump fails, water gets in the oil. To access the water pump, the front of the engine has to be removed. Repair cost is $3k-$4k. I'll find the video and post it.

It's another reason, besides the PTU issue, why I purchased the Allstate extended warranty (EW). It's 7 years, 125k miles. Our local Ford dealer prefers that to Fords EW. At that time, that's the brand they carried beside Fords.

To be clear, Nick, @13COBRA , gave me a very competitive price on a Zurich EW. I went with Allstate since they would more than likely be doing the repairs, and are local. That dealership has since changed hands, and now sells Zurich.

So what I'm saying is Zurich is a good EW company, so check with Nick.

FWIW, I've heard from at least 3 sources I trust, that Ford is difficult to deal with on EW, and why I did not buy from them.

When evaluating the reinsurance companies that offer extended service agreements, I sat down with almost a dozen. Zurich is the best I found, and we have no issues with claims whether at my store, or in other states.

 

[OX1]

I've never had to warranty any blown engine for myself. I have had warranty work done on several highly modified vehicles without issue. It's not a cheap endeavor for a dealer/manufacturer to wrongfully deny a warranty claim in SC. It opens them up to triple damages plus attorneys fees. Wanna guess what I'd bill per hour for an adventure like that?

So you are a lawyer AND owner/admin of the BEST (by far, thanks!!!) Ford perf site on the net? What does that have to do with the rest of us schlums that can barely get "normal" warantee work done? LOL!!

Like this guy. Of course the dealer was wrong, could buy a big brake system for what it would cost him to fight it though.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/ford-service-advisor-voided-warranty.25007/page-2

Anyway, didn't stop me from tunes from reputable tuners, but in no way would I even chance paying Ford's rate to diagnose the engine failure, if the engine blew up (which I also realize is rare).

 

[TORQUERULES]

Run it in Sport mode as often as possible to give it some time at an RPM level above 2K or lower which is where Ford runs everything to supposedly help with mileage (though I don't see this as lugging like this hurts the mileage on mine). In other words the "Italian Tune Up" as much as possible.

 

[SID297]

So you are a lawyer AND owner/admin of the BEST (by far, thanks!!!) Ford perf site on the net? What does that have to do with the rest of us schlums that can barely get "normal" warantee work done? LOL!!

Like this guy. Of course the dealer was wrong, could buy a big brake system for what it would cost him to fight it though.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/ford-service-advisor-voided-warranty.25007/page-2

Anyway, didn't stop me from tunes from reputable tuners, but in no way would I even chance paying Ford's rate to diagnose the engine failure, if the engine blew up (which I also realize is rare).

Yep, and I'm more than willing to take on a claim wrongful denial of warranty (often on contingency). Same with insurance companies wrongfully denying a claim. I almost ended two marine surveyors' careers over a blown boat engine a few years ago. The insurance company made a wise decision and settled.