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E85 vs c16

Discussion in 'The Distillery' started by MustangMikeKy, Aug 2, 2011.

  1. Scuba-Matt

    Scuba-Matt Boost Freak!!!!!!!! Established Member

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    Yes I've read that.
    My point is, The PI heads on the Gen2 Lightning are very unforgiving. 4 valve heads are very forgiving. the timing on 4 valve heads can be pushed past the point of making power and one can expect little detonation. On the PI 2 valve head detonation is a killer just past 20 degrees timing with C16 and 25 psi boost.
    I have yet to see any info on the PI heads and E85.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2011
  2. 04sleeper

    04sleeper Runs On "Liquid Gold" Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I have seen it so many times I can't even keep track of them any more. Back to back on the dyno with the EXACT SAME TIMING I have seen E85 outperform C16! Plain and simple. All were taken to the track and ran quicker ET's than previous runs with C16.

    Believe me or not. It really doesnt bother me either way. I'm just stating real world experience and sharing it. That's all.

    Even with the same timing I have seen gains achieved. Doesn't matter what the motor octane number is because that is irrelevant. E85 does not perform like gasoline, so you can not think in those terms. It performs much higher than the octane it is rated for.

    I encourge you to try it for yourself. It will change your mind I can assure you.

    BADASS03SVT fought with the same thing for a year and a half before trying it. Now he is a firm believer as well.

    I am going to have to agree with you here. The experts are always the ones with no experience. People like to fight change. Its just human nature.

    It would have done nothing! Plain and simple.

    Tell them you were skeptical as well. Now you are seeing not only more HP, but lower ET's and a fatter wallet!

    Try it for yourself. I have yet to see it detonate on a motor. And I have seen some people do some pretty crazy things with timing and very lean A/F's where a normal motor would have melted long ago, just keep on going.

    I do like the discussion so I will make a new thread and merge these posts into it because we got WAY OFF TRACK from the OP's topic.
     
  3. 04sleeper

    04sleeper Runs On "Liquid Gold" Staff Member Super Moderator

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    E85 Octane VS C16

    Merged from the other thread.
     
  4. Ironhand

    Ironhand Banned

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    Why does everyone compare the Motor Octane of gas and E-85. It doesnt make sense.

    E-85 consumes between 30-33% more fuel for the same power as regular gas. So that number should go up quite a bit.. Maybe 30-33% but no one actually knows.

    I built my car specifically for E-85. And I havent heard of a car on E-85 blowing up or detonating yet.
     
  5. y2k2gt

    y2k2gt 2V PoWereD Established Member

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    I have PI heads and run only E85...
     
  6. hurley383

    hurley383 New Member Established Member

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    You are right they are pushing 40+ pounds of boost making 660 or more out of a 4 cylinder weighing 3000 without driver running mid 9s. So 40 pounds to 23 pounds? I think E-85 can handle the boost...
     
  7. hurley383

    hurley383 New Member Established Member

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    The lightning i was talking about earlier was running a gen 2 whipple2.3 16.5 to 17 pounds of boost no head studs nothing all stock motor and the e-85 took it like a champ hell from the original tune we had on the truck when we did the trans and went in for a touch up the guy told us the tune was 10% leaner then when we had left before and the truck never had a hicup or anything tore the motor apart today and everything looking amazing...
     
  8. AntiHeightPunk

    AntiHeightPunk New Member Established Member

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    how do you know n2s guys!? You move from FL?
     
  9. BADASS03SVT

    BADASS03SVT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    And the ethanol would also take that AND make more power.

    Like 04 said, I was hesitant at first also. Especially after seeing people try it and gain nothing or lose or whatever. But after reading about it and getting my ducks in a row to get it (40 min drive) I did it and never looked back.

    To say the L heads aren't forgiving and C16 is the only option is bogus when you have 13:1 BBC's making 1000hp and then swapping over and gaining 50hp and the motor is fine. The L heads aren't a special breed that resists other types of fuel. It's worked in hundreds of other combinations it will work in that one. Period.
     
  10. Ct.TOPGUN

    Ct.TOPGUN Member Established Member

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    Gaining power by going to E85 with no tuning changes says only one thing. The tune was suited for lower octane than the C16 carries.,

    Jim
     
  11. BADASS03SVT

    BADASS03SVT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    OK.....no tuning would result in "Kaboom" since the Stoich is no where near gas.

    Good luck with your modding. :beer:
     
  12. 04sleeper

    04sleeper Runs On "Liquid Gold" Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I lived in WPB for 20 years. I know just about everyone down there.
     
  13. 04sleeper

    04sleeper Runs On "Liquid Gold" Staff Member Super Moderator

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    OK. With that being said do you mix your own Race Fuel for the EXACT Octane that every car needs? I would bet not. No one does. They use the higher octane as a safety cusion.

    We are not talking slow cars making 600-700 RWHP now, we are talking about race engines making 1500-2000 RWHP pushing 30+ psi of boost in large CID engines. That speaks volumes for fuel that can be had at your local grocery store.


    He was speaking about the example I gave with the same timing used. The only thing that was changed was the A/F for the different Stoich.

    But these were higher boost cars making over 25 PSI so they must have been stupid for running C16 because they obviously should have been running lower octane fuel. :rollseyes

    Oh, and I am certain your car would not have made any more power with your combo on C16 VS VP109.
     
  14. Ct.TOPGUN

    Ct.TOPGUN Member Established Member

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    Funny! But I should have been more specific. I was indeed talking about timing curves. Of course the A/F would have to be adjusted between the two fuels.
     
  15. Sinister04L

    Sinister04L RIP Kane Established Member

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    Matt and Jim, E85 is a beautiful thing. You can run it instead of C16 on the Lightning with great results. Even if it only makes the same power as C16 it's worth it to run a much cheaper unleaded fuel. Of course if you already have a fuel system built for C16 and don't want to upgrade your pumps and injectors for E85 that's understandable. It does work though.
     
  16. Ct.TOPGUN

    Ct.TOPGUN Member Established Member

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    Seems we have a few guys that are going to try this in Lightnings. I have also asked for feedback from the big four Lightning tuning shops. At least two of which have plenty of E85 experience(but mostly for street setups). I will certainly be paying close attention to these results. Just to be sure I have accurate info. Not having E85 available here makes the info moot for my own application. But can be useful to others.

    Jim
     
  17. Scuba-Matt

    Scuba-Matt Boost Freak!!!!!!!! Established Member

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    Scott it sure looks that way.
    I'll, be building my 2012 Mustang GT and running E85.
    Man where have you been hiding? Hows the SS
     
  18. Turbo98

    Turbo98 FR500TT Established Member

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    E85 is a great fuel for ANY engine. People are wondering if it will work in this car or that, etc. Just set it up and run it. It will make more power, period. I don't understand the skepticism at this point. I challenge anybody to find somebody who has detonated it. Heck, we ran over 20 PSI and ran the timing up past MBT and it lost power so we backed it back down to 20*. No detonation.
     
  19. Sinister04L

    Sinister04L RIP Kane Established Member

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    Sweet! I'll be running E85 on the SS too. Currently getting the new set up under way.

    I wouldn't say any engine. For high compression engines and boosted applications, absolutely.
     
  20. SVTDice

    SVTDice Active Member Established Member

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    Listen, E85 Is great but you guys are comparing Apples to Oranges. Kind of, Let me explain

    C-16 Is 119 Octane if I remember correctly. Now if you put it up against E98. E98 of 117+ Octane will come out on top hands down. However it is quite a bit more expensive then say E85.

    C-16 119+ Octanefor 5 gallons = 80$
    E98 117+ Octane for 5 gallons = 35$

    Seems a bit more fair don't you think? Ethonol is a GREAT Fuel. People time and time again have had very good results. Dyno, Track, Street. There is countless threads, videos, blogs, informational resources etc. Proving this.

    I'm sorry that some people see this in such a negative manner.

    Just so you guys don't think I'm making this stuff up. Here is some links.

    VP Racing C16 Race Fuel 5 gallon container

    E98 Racing Fuel Now Available!
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2011

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