E85 questions non ported eaton

Tractionless1

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there was an article in one of the mustang mags of a terminator - pully only - switching to e85. he gained around 15 hp/trq across the entire band. probly would be higher with the 4lb lower you want.
with a ts, obviously the gains are a lot more substantial.
in cali, i wouldnt switch yet as there arent many stations but its up to you.

I know you aren't doing for initial power BUT you did "wonder" how much gain you could expect in the 2nd quote above huh? Not to mention the thread title is "E85 Questions Non-Ported Eaton." And is why I posted IMO it's not worth the $$ for the posted 15whp increase. By all means as I said before run E85 on a twin screw, but don't expect the world with an Eaton.



:sleeping:, is that all ya got?



I'm I supposed to be impressed by 542whp 557 TQ or is there a Wednesday car somewhere in that 10 pg. thread I'm missing? I'm sure the above numbers have been attained with petroleum racegas as well. In fact I could probably attain them on my setup currently registering 519/566 SAE on 93 oct. and 17* timing.

1-31-09aDyno.gif

The car ended up making more than that later and he only made 470 on regular pump gasoline. So I would say the HP increase was a lot more than 15 RWHP as you say.

And regardless, it DID make 27 more HP than your car on your expensive Race Gas.

Better re-read the quotes above I made no mention of 15whp the OP did. And my dyno was done on 93 octane NOT "expensive racegas."

But if you want to fight the WHP war I'll go fill up on my expensive racegas, hit the dyno and chase that extra 27whp you are bragging about. Only difference is I'll do it without putting another roughly $1k into my fuel system for fuel hats, injectors, dual fpdms etc. which are needed for E85. Again E85 NOT worth it for an Eaton setup.
 

04sleeper

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But if you want to fight the WHP war I'll go fill up on my expensive racegas, hit the dyno and chase that extra 27whp you are bragging about. Only difference is I'll do it without putting another roughly $1k into my fuel system for fuel hats, injectors, dual fpdms etc. which are needed for E85. Again E85 NOT worth it for an Eaton setup.
Your DEAD Wrong there buddy. Weather you like to believe it or not! E85 kills 93 Octane and your "Precious" 110. Any way you look at it. The stuff was made for boost.

You get ZERO cooling benefit from either of your fuels. Make a run against a same exact spec car with E85 and it will always win. Plain and simple.

The difference is when your "Heaton" is DONE after one pass, the E85 car will make the power over and over due to the cooling. Pass after pass. Your 93 will fall on it's face due to heat and is pushing the envelope of detonation. With E85 you will NEVER reach that threshold.

Go ahead and keep your car on the edge of detonation and heat and I'll take the motor that will last running on E85!

At $2 per gallon it really is "Liquid Gold"!
 

lguizar12

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Liquid gold baby! Hey 04sleeper, my tuner said I need a wideband. Will the aerofprce one that I have now work?
 

Tractionless1

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Your DEAD Wrong there buddy. Weather you like to believe it or not! E85 kills 93 Octane and your "Precious" 110. Any way you look at it. The stuff was made for boost.

You get ZERO cooling benefit from either of your fuels. Make a run against a same exact spec car with E85 and it will always win. Plain and simple.

The difference is when your "Heaton" is DONE after one pass, the E85 car will make the power over and over due to the cooling. Pass after pass. Your 93 will fall on it's face due to heat and is pushing the envelope of detonation. With E85 you will NEVER reach that threshold.

Go ahead and keep your car on the edge of detonation and heat and I'll take the motor that will last running on E85!

At $2 per gallon it really is "Liquid Gold"!

Really, no problem here my IAT2's after a 1/4 mile pass are 95*. E85 is $2.58/gal. here as well while it is still cheaper than petro racegas it's certaintly not a bargain considering its faster burn rate. Any other of your E85 "facts" you need me to shoot down...............PAL. :p
 

04sleeper

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Really, no problem here my IAT2's after a 1/4 mile pass are 95*. E85 is $2.58/gal. here as well while it is still cheaper than petro racegas it's certaintly not a bargain considering its faster burn rate. Any other of your E85 "facts" you need me to shoot down...............PAL. :p
Your only making yourself look foolish. But if you want to keep digging your hole further, go right ahead. Be my guest.

You must have to worlds coolest "Heaton" if your IAT's are that cool pass after pass. Unless you spent extra money on a Killer Chiller or Ice your intake after every pass, you are full of shit. And if you did spend the extra time and money on the Killer Chiller then that blows away your theory of spending extra money on the fuel system. (Which the OP is going to have to do anyway because he is going Twin Screw)

Last time I checked the price of 110 octane here it was $11 per gallon and you could not pull up to a pump and buy it like regular gasoline. E85 here is $2.03 per gallon. (Sorry if it is more expensive where you live) Even if it were $2.58 like you said you add 15% for your reduced fuel economy that would still only be $2.967 per gallon. Which is still around the price of 93 octane.

Even if you used Twice the fuel (which you don't) it would still BLOW AWAY the price of your Race Gas. And it even performs better than your 110 Race Gas so you can't really compare.

Anything else you want to make yourself look foolish about? :p
 

shanezt

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Your only making yourself look foolish. But if you want to keep digging your hole further, go right ahead. Be my guest.

You must have to worlds coolest "Heaton" if your IAT's are that cool pass after pass. Unless you spent extra money on a Killer Chiller or Ice your intake after every pass, you are full of shit. And if you did spend the extra time and money on the Killer Chiller then that blows away your theory of spending extra money on the fuel system. (Which the OP is going to have to do anyway because he is going Twin Screw)

Last time I checked the price of 110 octane here it was $11 per gallon and you could not pull up to a pump and buy it like regular gasoline. E85 here is $2.03 per gallon. (Sorry if it is more expensive where you live) Even if it were $2.58 like you said you add 15% for your reduced fuel economy that would still only be $2.967 per gallon. Which is still around the price of 93 octane.

Even if you used Twice the fuel (which you don't) it would still BLOW AWAY the price of your Race Gas. And it even performs better than your 110 Race Gas so you can't really compare.

Anything else you want to make yourself look foolish about? :p


i am on your side 100%, e-85 blows away 110 oct in every aspect. but i must say your figure of 15% reduced fuel economy is off. i went from 14 mpg to 8mpg. all of our dodge vehicles that are flex fuel have an epa rating that is 30% less than the regular fuel rating. if some how you only lost 15% you are truly lucky.

i still dont see how one can deny the benifits of e-85. stop comparing it to the price of 91oct. unless you can run 24* of timing and 21lbs of boost on 91oct, then you cant compare the 2. you have to compare e-85 to race fuel, and here even 100oct is 6.00 per gal. i pay 2.29 for e-85 and i can run more timing than i can on 100oct. the benifit is having a car that performs 100% of the time, not just when on a "race" tune with a thousand dollars of fuel in the tank.

and the fore hat argument is kinda lame to since to do the gt pumps the CORRECT way you need the hat no matter what fuel you run. the only added expense i had was the -8 line upgrade. then you also have to consider that i dont have to change my pulley, ever. without e-85 i would not be able to run 21lbs the most on 91oct was 19lbs. so that would mean to go to the track i would have to fill up on race fuel ( 75$) buy a shorter belt (50$), swap belts and pulley's, load race tune, and enjoy the car for all of 2 nights before i would have to go back to pump gas mode.
 

Tractionless1

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Your only making yourself look foolish. But if you want to keep digging your hole further, go right ahead. Be my guest.

You must have to worlds coolest "Heaton" if your IAT's are that cool pass after pass. Unless you spent extra money on a Killer Chiller or Ice your intake after every pass, you are full of shit. And if you did spend the extra time and money on the Killer Chiller then that blows away your theory of spending extra money on the fuel system. (Which the OP is going to have to do anyway because he is going Twin Screw)

Last time I checked the price of 110 octane here it was $11 per gallon and you could not pull up to a pump and buy it like regular gasoline. E85 here is $2.03 per gallon. (Sorry if it is more expensive where you live) Even if it were $2.58 like you said you add 15% for your reduced fuel economy that would still only be $2.967 per gallon. Which is still around the price of 93 octane.

Even if you used Twice the fuel (which you don't) it would still BLOW AWAY the price of your Race Gas. And it even performs better than your 110 Race Gas so you can't really compare.

Anything else you want to make yourself look foolish about? :p

Yes KC equipped, but $500-$600 less than an E85 fuel system and I guarantee my IAT2's with the "Heaton" are still lower than yours with your other added $3500+ blower upgrade expense. "Which blows away" you blowing away my theory of spending extra money on a fuel system. Not to mention I highly doubt E85 can be considered a viable intake cooling method to the point of dropping 50* from IAT2's as the KC does. So in essence you need the KC still to achieve IAT2's in my range. :p

110 oct. here is $6.85/gal. and I can pull up and pump it with a funnel like regular gasoline. E85 IS $2.58 maybe I'll roll around to the pump and take a pick of it since you have little faith. As far as the E85 performing better than 110 oct. on an EATON setup, again I have no problem chasing down the 27 whp I'm lacking between my pumpgas tune and you're E85 map.

:pop:
 

04sleeper

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Yes KC equipped, but $500-$600 less than an E85 fuel system and I guarantee my IAT2's with the "Heaton" are still lower than yours with your other added $3500+ blower upgrade expense. "Which blows away" you blowing away my theory of spending extra money on a fuel system.
Are you really that thick headed? We are not comparing Whipple VS Eaton here! Whipple > Eaton so it really doesn't matter now does it?

You are really making yourself look more incompetent with every post so you should really stop while your ahead. (Or not ahead in reality)

Not to mention I highly doubt E85 can be considered a viable intake cooling method to the point of dropping 50* from IAT2's as the KC does.
Why would you say that? Have you ever seen an Alcohol Funny car run? Have you ever seen the intake ice up after a run? Same principal here genius! :idea:


So in essence you need the KC still to achieve IAT2's in my range. :p
In essence, I guess not. :poke:

110 oct. here is $6.85/gal. and I can pull up and pump it with a funnel like regular gasoline.
Funnel? I don't have to use any funnel to pump E85 or gasoline???? :??::shrug:



I'm sorry you waste $102.75 for a single tank of fuel when I pay $30.60 for the same 15 gallons. I can buy THREE TIMES as much fuel as you can and it's better too! :banana:

E85 IS $2.58 maybe I'll roll around to the pump and take a pick of it since you have little faith.
Never doubted your cost one bit. Would you like me to show you the cost here? :rolleyes:

As far as the E85 performing better than 110 oct. on an EATON setup, again I have no problem chasing down the 27 whp I'm lacking between my pumpgas tune and you're E85 map.

:pop:
Then go right ahead and enjoy spending more money on lower grade fuel and going slower with less HP!
 

MVD

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You must have to worlds coolest "Heaton" if your IAT's are that cool pass after pass.

My IAT2's with a Heaton stay around 100* for a full pass (2.8/6#). Yes I allow for a full cool down and I have an ice box in the trunk. But I would do that regardless of which fuel I use.
 

04sleeper

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My IAT2's with a Heaton stay around 100* for a full pass (2.8/6#). Yes I allow for a full cool down and I have an ice box in the trunk. But I would do that regardless of which fuel I use.
That's great but what about driving around on the street?

Anyone can jam ice into an IC system at the track.

With E85 you can enjoy the cooling effects all the time. Street, track, roadrace course, whatever. And you don't even have to open your hood or run your A/C system all the time.
 

MVD

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That's great but what about driving around on the street?

Anyone can jam ice into an IC system at the track.

With E85 you can enjoy the cooling effects all the time. Street, track, roadrace course, whatever. And you don't even have to open your hood or run your A/C system all the time.

The street is for driving, the track is for racing.

I am not at all worried about an extra few horsepower the heat is robbing me of on the street since I wouldn't use them anyway.
 

jamescb77

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If you are going Twin Screw then you will need the following.

If staying Returnless: (My Current Set Up)
Fore Fuel Hat, Twin GT Pumps, Dual FPDM's, 40 Amp BAP, Wiring Upgrade, -8 line to the rails, 80# injectors.


Obviously a new tune will be required for either.

what kinda power would this setup support with E85?
 

04sleeper

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Liquid gold baby! Hey 04sleeper, my tuner said I need a wideband. Will the aerofprce one that I have now work?
Sorry for th late response lguizar. If you already have a Wideband O2 sensor in your exhaust hooked up to your Aeroforce gauge then you should be good to go. You will need to wire the output of the Wideband to a datalogger or SCT Handheld tuner for datalogging.

The street is for driving, the track is for racing.

I am not at all worried about an extra few horsepower the heat is robbing me of on the street since I wouldn't use them anyway.
Well 99% of the people on here drive their car on the street at some point and I'm sure they would benefit from the cooling the Ethanol offers.


what kinda power would this setup support with E85?
The returnless system like I have will support up to 750 RWHP on E85.
 

dadro77

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E85 here is $2.03 per gallon. (Sorry if it is more expensive where you live) Even if it were $2.58 like you said you add 15% for your reduced fuel economy that would still only be $2.967 per gallon. Which is still around the price of 93 octane.

Even if you used Twice the fuel (which you don't) it would still BLOW AWAY the price of your Race Gas. And it even performs better than your 110 Race Gas so you can't really compare.

Anything else you want to make yourself look foolish about? :p



93 is $3.09 right now as of today in South Florida. I think E-85 is around $2.40...
 

ZOSO

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I love my eaton on E85. Look at my trap. Old best of 116mph on 91oct at 20* timing. Best mph on E85 is 122 at 25* timing. Race weight was 3800 both times. Old Dyno numbers are 420rwhp uncorrected on 91. No dyno numbers on E85 but it has been calculated to ~475rwhp.
 

blowngt

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I love my eaton on E85. Look at my trap. Old best of 116mph on 91oct at 20* timing. Best mph on E85 is 122 at 25* timing. Race weight was 3800 both times. Old Dyno numbers are 420rwhp uncorrected on 91. No dyno numbers on E85 but it has been calculated to ~475rwhp.

Blah......Not worth it in may book.

I say spend more on fuel and go slower.......:poke:

Congrats. I made the switch to E85 earlier this year and I'm about to get silly with it. Just installed 160# injectors, a stand alone and have a spare shortblock waiting the garage just in case :beer:........
 

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