I was thinking of switching to e85 with boost but would still like to keep my nitrous for spool, has anybody ran nitrous with e85? is it ok and do you have to do a big fuel jet for the nozzle?
e85 and nitrous help
- Thread starter whtcobra1998
- Start date
Do you want to just hit it off the line for spool and it shut off or run it all the way down the track?
Either way you need to take the fuel jet and multiply it by 1.3 .
That will give you the new fuel jet size needed. Since your running boost the fuel rail pressure increases for the amount of boost your running which will also cause a rich condition since most nitrous kits are set up for 43 psi's of fuel pressure.
What you'll need to do is if your going to run it all the way down the track , you need to watch you a/f its going to be on the rich side so you will need to change the fuel jet back down in .2 increments until you hit your target a/f.
You would like to see boost and nitrous a/f around 10.80 to 11.20 is were I usually run it .
If you only hit it of line for a second or two then dont worry so much about the jetting . As the boost goes up the a/f goes richer.
Pete
Either way you need to take the fuel jet and multiply it by 1.3 .
That will give you the new fuel jet size needed. Since your running boost the fuel rail pressure increases for the amount of boost your running which will also cause a rich condition since most nitrous kits are set up for 43 psi's of fuel pressure.
What you'll need to do is if your going to run it all the way down the track , you need to watch you a/f its going to be on the rich side so you will need to change the fuel jet back down in .2 increments until you hit your target a/f.
You would like to see boost and nitrous a/f around 10.80 to 11.20 is were I usually run it .
If you only hit it of line for a second or two then dont worry so much about the jetting . As the boost goes up the a/f goes richer.
Pete
The effect of nitrous is greatly reduced on E85 vs on pump...especially on a lower compression motor. There is a big deal about how to get around it on the grand national forums...they werent able to get the spray to spoolup their turbos until one guy figred it out with some wack timing expermints. They were able to have such a late combustion and its so cold that it was still burning as it exited the exhaust valve and pretty much combusted in the headers. Turned out great for them.
All because E85 runs extremely cool as it is...then when you introduce the super chilled N20...it reduces the temperature so much that combustion is actually hindered. A really large shot can kill combustion all togethor.
But with your setup, a spooling shot should not cause you much of any issues...just slightly less power on the spray from what I have seen.
All because E85 runs extremely cool as it is...then when you introduce the super chilled N20...it reduces the temperature so much that combustion is actually hindered. A really large shot can kill combustion all togethor.
But with your setup, a spooling shot should not cause you much of any issues...just slightly less power on the spray from what I have seen.
anymore info on this?
the guys on the e85 forums said I would be fine running nitrous on e85. if not this could be a dilemma....
Couldnt you run slightly warmer plugs if you were to run E85 and spray to aid in combustion?
You will be fine...I just wanted to throw that out there as an FYI as not everyone can run a huge shot. Problem happens with low compression large turbo cars that are running E85/E98 that are spraying to spool the turbo...IE cars that were not originallly built for E85. Even a lower compression N/A engine with a large Shot could have issues.
Large turbo cars are essentially N/A when trying to spool the turbo...that means low air volume with low compression,= low heat, then add in super cooling fuel like E85, plus cryo temp N20, and you can reduce the fuel/air mixture to a point BELOW its flashpoint. All beacuse E85 has a much higher flashpoint then gasoline. Gasoline will ignite all the way down to -40*F...pure ethenal is around 55*F...so E85 falls inbetween and more toward the ethanal side. This is a BIG problem for those running E98 and renders nitrous useless for some applications.
In ANY case as of today, none of us will experience nitrous gains that are on par with gasoline gains....unless we apply how we gain power with E85, to E85 N20 use. And that would be NOT using super colder plugs and not retarding timing as much as we used to.
Unless your pushing E85 to its limit with timing and boost as you set, I would vernture to say (and this is my opinion) that you should NOT reduce timing or change to colder plugs when you spray (100-150). It takes large amounts of boost to near its limit and even @ MBT timing most of us are still a ways off of its knock point. (Ie there are guys running 10.5 compression with 45PSI and no knock)
There is going to be a large learning curve but I think that as time goes on, nitrous will be able to make as much or more gains on E85 than was possible on pump gas. :beer:
Ive run my set up with a 100 shot , on the dyno for testing the a/f we dropped the boost from 22 psi's to 20 but left timing at 22* . the car made 856 rwhp and 925 rwtq.
In comparison which was not a ideal comparison we made 836 rwhp and 848 rwtq at 22 psi's same timing . Boost Only!
We know that the jetting for 100hp is not exactly 100 hp but the main reason we wanted to spray was to see if the temps would drop and if the car would pull harder b/c of the obvious torq advantage , which it did. The inlet temps also dropped 20*.
I haven't tried using one heat range hotter spark but I would think it would work fine .
As far as the nitrous gains , Im going to jet the car for 150 shot and lean out the fuel jet and check the a/f again .
Just installed 3 new Deatschwerks 300 lph pumps so I should be able to turn the boost up to 27 psi's and start testing and fine tuning some more .
Pete
In comparison which was not a ideal comparison we made 836 rwhp and 848 rwtq at 22 psi's same timing . Boost Only!
We know that the jetting for 100hp is not exactly 100 hp but the main reason we wanted to spray was to see if the temps would drop and if the car would pull harder b/c of the obvious torq advantage , which it did. The inlet temps also dropped 20*.
I haven't tried using one heat range hotter spark but I would think it would work fine .
As far as the nitrous gains , Im going to jet the car for 150 shot and lean out the fuel jet and check the a/f again .
Just installed 3 new Deatschwerks 300 lph pumps so I should be able to turn the boost up to 27 psi's and start testing and fine tuning some more .
Pete
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This thread has given me some food for thought. I was planning to run a 100 - 150 shot on my N/A Cobra that I converted to E85 over the winter. Based on what's been stated here though it sounds like it would be a pain to tune and the results would fall short of what I was hoping.
Out of curiosity has anyone considered trying a dry shot of N2O? Perhaps pluming the N2O jet to the top side of the air filter ahead of the MAF? I have a JLT cai and a 90 mm Lightning MAF, it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to rig something like this?
Out of curiosity has anyone considered trying a dry shot of N2O? Perhaps pluming the N2O jet to the top side of the air filter ahead of the MAF? I have a JLT cai and a 90 mm Lightning MAF, it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to rig something like this?
plenty of guys running n/a with nitrous out there....do it. just remember you add 30% to the fuel jet you would use for gas. for a few....
[ame=http://www.e85performance.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11]E85 and Nitrous Oxide - E85Performance.net - Discussion Forum for All E85 Car Owners[/ame]
ahead of the maf can be done but in small shot imo. the maf is electrical and once you start throwing freezing air at it in huge quantities it gets funky. Plus your just "tricking" the pcm to work differently which Im not a fan of.
Thanx for the info. I've done some searching around and haven't been able to come up w/ a lot of EFI info for E85 & N2O. Seems like a lot of carb guys and some tbi guys have done it successfully but I'm not sure how easily the nuts and bolts info transfers?
At any rate I will probably be doing the tuning myself later this summer w/ SCT Pro Racer and my XCAL2 so I'll just have to create a learning curve it seems . . .
just start with a small shot like 50 and work from there. The tuning should be similar to gas as long as you have all the right parameters in there.
Ive been reading guys aren't even pulling timing on the bottle...have to read more on that for myself...
Yeah, I've seen that too. Seems as though the timing you pull for E85 is about equal to what you would pull for N2O since it appears the combustion temps end up in about the same area.
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