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Driving impression on the 05 GT

Discussion in 'S-197 Mustangs' started by SlowSVT, Jul 12, 2005.

  1. WILDTHANG

    WILDTHANG In The Rear View Mirror Established Member

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    You know it is funny to me reading some of the post on this thread. The two cars are completely different and many of you are refering to bodylines and not design. I own a 03 Cobra and a 05 GT, they are both great cars. The 03 Cobra is a lot of bang for your buck with the motor, 6spd, etc. Cheap mods and some good tires and you have a car you can drive to the track on pump gas and run an 11 sec quarter. But face it the 03 Cobra is basically a reskinned 78 Ford Fairmont with an IRS stuffed into a car designed for a straight axle and A heatsoaked supercharged motor with poor cooling. The 05Gt would live alot longer @150mph than the Cobra would. Take a good look at the new GTs, they were built to be a Mustang(not altered to be one). IMO the new chassis is better and the weight placement is better. The sub frames almost touch in the 05s, the fuel tank has been moved under the rear seat and the battery is up on th firewall.

    I don't know if you have been following Grand-Am Cup at all but these guys have been on fire.[​IMG]

    I love to drive my 03 Cobra, because I love the hard hit it has. But the 05 GT drives and handles Sweet. If it had Cobra power, lookout :burnout:
     
  2. SlowSVT

    SlowSVT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    This is a brilliant analogy. Let me ask you how many part in a 78 Fairmont have actually been carried over and will interchange with a 04 Mustang? It’s not like Ford stopped all engineering development in 79. Then went on an extended vacation and the next 25 years and just “reskinned” it without making engineering improvements. That is absurd. To me the biggest improvement on the 05 is the stiffer chassis and the coil over suspension

    The new GT500 at 450 hp will have the same heat related issues as the 03/04. Bigger engine, more power = more heat. I think the 05 GT Mustang top speed is right at 150 mph and that’s at max output at about 270 RWHP. Where as a Cobra will easily obtain that speed and has forged internals with a cast iron block. I think it will hold up very well against the 05.

    Untrue. The new Mustang is based on the Lincoln LS platform and I’m sure they used as many existing parts as possible to keep their costs in line which is a practice all the auto makers use.

    Ford managed to stiffen the chassis up quite a bit in the new Mustang. Most of the weight distribution improvement comes from pushing the front wheels forward 5” ahead of the engine. Unfortunately the new GT500 will have a hefty mill out front that will make it nose heavy again at 57/43 at a wopping 3800 lbs. and that’s without the 125 lb weight penalty of the IRS.

    The 05 Mustang is a better engineered car without a doubt but I would not call it light years ahead of the SN96. The 2000 Cobra R and the 03/04’s have some pretty impressive numbers . I’m sure the performance of the GT500 will be somewhat better then the 03/04 Cobra but the suspension is going to have to deal with the added bulk of that chassis. The 03/04 Cobra pulls .9 G’s on the skid pad vs. .87 for the 05 GT (the Cobra R was pushing over 1 G which is vette territory).

    The new Mustang will get better each year like all cars do. I just hope they drop that 1967 blunt nose retro front end in favor of something more sleek and modern looking. Get rid of those NOS gauges, bright interior trim work, F-150 mirrors and it would be more of an appealing car to me.
     
  3. Lightning Kid

    Lightning Kid Lightning Addict Established Member

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    Funny how the oringinal mustang was just an boring Ford car altered to be mustangs, so in reality the 04 model could be considered "more mustang"? :coolman:
     
  4. WILDTHANG

    WILDTHANG In The Rear View Mirror Established Member

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    Why did Ford have so many problems with the 99 Cobra? IRS was one of them, the cars are built for a 8.8 straight axle. A 7.5 rear end out of a 78 Fairmont would bolt right into place in a Cobra, same control arm points and geometry. I have done my homework with serious considerations of putting a solid axle in my 03 Cobra. If you don't believe me then maybe you'll believe the guys at Griggs who make a living dealing in this:

    "Believe it or not, the Mustang has never been a purpose built car (like a Corvette for example); it has always been built from an existing platform. The first Mustang evolved from the Falcon. The Mustang II was little more than a reskinned Pinto. The Fox & SN95 Mustangs are direct descendants of the Fairmont, and use the same basic chassis to this day.
    The Fairmont was introduced in late in 1977 as a '78 model. At the time this car was designed (work probably started sometime in '74) we were in the middle of an energy crisis. The days of high horsepower cars were gone, most people believed never to return. Few people had discovered the delight of driving a good handling car, and the Big 3 were content to let them buy funny little cars from Germany with the engine in the wrong end."

    Griggs Racing



    As you put it "That is absurd" How can you state that heatsoak issues will be the same with a Roots-type supercharger(03-04 Cobra) approx. 65% efficient and a Screw-type supercharger(07 Cobra) approx. 90% efficient. I would take a guess and say that the cooling circulation will be better in the 5.4 also.

    YEP!!!


    I don't know what you guys drive or if you work on or build up your own vehicles, but I do. I'm not just typing out my ass. I own and take a strong interest in these cars. I thought this site is to help eachother and educated eachother, not just talk smack.
     
  5. SlowSVT

    SlowSVT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Ford had cylinder head problems with the first batch of 05 GT. So what's your point? 1999 was the first year they came out with the IRS. First articles are always risky purchases. I would never swap out my IRS for a straight axle and have zero problems with it. The un-sprung weight in an IRS equipped Mustang is 125 lbs. less then with a live axle (that is the main reason to use one). An IRS will be better around ripply corners on a street car. It can also be de-cambered and adjust for more toe "in". Ford did not go through all that trouble and expense adding an IRS for nothing. Tai Tang said cost was the main reason why Ford chose not to equip the GT500 with it. A straight axle is better in a drag car, Autocross favors an IRS

    (You forgot to mention the 05 Mustang is from the Lincoln LS platform)

    I'm rather baffled why a person who owns an 04 Cobra which is one of the highest performance Mustangs ever built would keep referring to it's as a 78 Fairmont. Is that what you tell your friends?

    Thanks for the history lesson

    My understanding is the current plan at Ford is to use the Eaton M120 supercharger on the GT500 which is just a larger version of the M112. Both use roots-type compressor screws. You are using the term "heatsoak" incorrectly regarding this subject.

    I think it would be safe to say most all of the people on this board are Mustang enthusiast and have probably have turn a wrench or two. Why would you think we don't help each other? I learned today that a 7 ½” Fairmont axle will fit in my Cobra.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2005
  6. Undertow

    Undertow New Member Established Member

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    I wish I could drive one. I agree and disagree with others as far as looks go. I like the way the new 05 GT looks but I still struggle with rear end of it. It just looks too rotund. Another thing I don't care for is the variety of rims that they have for it. Actually it's the size of the rims as well. From what I understand the 06 will have an 18" option. Overall though, I have to stop and look at it whenever I see one go by. It's a design that everyone will eventually like down the road, it just takes time to get used to. Anything they could of possibly done would have probably been a disappointment regardless.
     
  7. alfman9

    alfman9 You smell smoke? Established Member

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    True, but the Cobra and Cobra R have much wider tires with much stickier rubber. put some wide sticky tires on the GT, and I bet it is as good or better then the vette.
     
  8. Formula51

    Formula51 Active Member Established Member

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    Hahaha. If it were that easy. With track tires, you might have a chance in hell. With street tires it is not going to happen.
     
  9. Boomer v3.8

    Boomer v3.8 Member Established Member

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    Holy Miss Information ....

    the 05 chassis is NOT Dew or DewLite (Lincoln LS)
    This was changed way back...
    It is a MUSTANG platform NOT shared with any other car (yet) D2C platform.

    The GT500 may or may not share the same 'heat problem' with the 03/04s.
    Unless you work for SVT, you would not know this. Look at the grill on the 05, and see how corked that front end is(filled in honeycomb). Lots of room for air movement.
    That unless blocked, would allow too much air in, and have some hood lift.
    The GT500 notice has vents on its hood. Lots more room for air flow/cooling improvement on this car compared to yesteryear.

    Fact: the 05 3link solid rear end handles better than the shoe horned IRS in the 99/01/03/04 cobra's. Theres only so much you can do to a car that was not designed to handle such a suspension.
    The 05 chassis WAS built for it, but the IRS was taken out last minute and the solid rear end was built after the fact (and a darn good job as well)

    The chassis itself is 1000x better than the years before, which makes sense as its NEW..not a bandaged 79 platform. While its miles better than it was....its still the same underpinnings, and you can argue whatever you want...that fact does not change. Welcome to the 21st century.

    Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the 03/04 cobras...but I would never trade my 05 in for one. If you want a go fast car, bang for buck..the cobra is an UNBEATABLE option...exclusivity, speed, power, handling, modfriendly...unrefined.

    Its a no wonder people who drive these cars are unimpressed with the 05.
    Your so used to FEELING everything, the 05 is so refined (which sounds like to your disliking..) than the previous cars...it doesn't feel as fast as it is..and it doesn't sound as fast...but it is... For 25k US dollars a mid 13 car....and not just speed, but handling etc) The speed limit on that car is 143mph as per the tires, not the car....

    Now, if you want to compare...
    Compare a Mach1 and a SLIGHTLY modded 05 (to bring the power levels equal...as we know the mach is slightly underated)

    I've driven a lot of the previous generation stangs, and they are great.....
    but I would not trade in my 05 and backstep for all the tea in china...
     
  10. philthy

    philthy Rotten Established Member

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    It took me a while to understand why people with the older cars dump on ours. I had to put myself in their shoes. I can remember when I had my C5 and the C6 came out I made every excuse in the book to come up with a reason why my C5 was better or why I should be happy with it. When deep down supressed was the feeling that I wanted one. Especially when I had bought the car and just 2 years later BAM there's a new one and now mine looks out dated and just wont get the looks it used to or the performance. I can only imagine how the cobra owners will feel when the GT500 comes out, since they talk so much crap out a non SVT car now.
     
  11. SlowSVT

    SlowSVT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Would you trade your 05 GT for a brand new 04 Cobra?
     
  12. Romans8:28

    Romans8:28 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    no he would not or for all the tea in china......
     
  13. Romans8:28

    Romans8:28 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I for one am gonna feel just great.........

    As far as I am concerned the "looks" have gone in the WRONG direction and the performance is ownly marginally better and can easily be eclipsed by mods and or drivering ability.

    The "new" gt500 will most likely cost nearly 50K (for at least the first year or so), plus the car will not be any faster than a lightly modded Terminator anyway. For just a portion of the 15-20K it would cost the typical Cobra owner to "trade up" you could easily smoke the 07. I think a KB/Whipple/TT terminator will do alot to remind the ""NEW" GT500 that "older brother" is a force itself.

    IMO the "new" Cobra looks "OK" at best and does not replace the raw, evil look of the current 03/04
     
  14. Boomer v3.8

    Boomer v3.8 Member Established Member

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    If my SOLE purpose was flatout raw speed and power... I guess...
    But remember, thats not everyones supreme goal.
    I love these cars (cobras), and have nothing but respect for them...
    but for the overall package, no way-shape-form...
    The 05 is just that much better of an all around package for the cash.
    And because they are so new, it's going to take some time for the mods to catch up.
    ..now this on the GT. Campare old GT (pre05) to new GT, and the answer is pretty simple. Unless of course your against the styling...which a lot of people love.. and some people hate.

    The GT500 is going to be a different beast all together. Considering is the 5.4.
    Right off the bat, the potential is greater than the 03/04, plain and simple.
    this too will take a couple of years, but i'll catch up.

    I don't know if its that Cobra owners are scared of the bigger badder cobra coming out (this happens all the time, its inevitable) but they shouldn't be....considering that the 500+hp cobra's that seems to be a commonality on these boards, do NOT represent a majority of the cobra community, but the enthusiast community.

    We buy and drive them, and mod them...but we are still a minority of mustang owners.
     
  15. philthy

    philthy Rotten Established Member

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    Personally I like the terminator and if there was not the styling of this new stang I would have went for one. The new looks brought me back to my first car's 70, 69 and 67 stang's. Not to mention the car is well thought out. But here we go again, compairing a supercharged SVT to a plain GT. Then you have people coming over the 05 section Just to tell us they dont like our cars. Then the answer to the new cobra is "I'll just mod mine" well we all can mod ours cars to the point of 500rwhp. And I for one cant leave anything alone. I didnt mean to make it sound like 03-04 cobra owners will be "scared" of the new one. But it will take the some of the attention way. And one thing I think we can agree on is the looks and attention we get with our cars. other wise we would all just drive "what ever" for transportation and no other reason. I am glad to see we all love our cars and willing to fight for them :beer:
     
  16. Boomer v3.8

    Boomer v3.8 Member Established Member

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    Don't forget most people can't tell the difference between a V6, GT, Cobra ...
    We do, and we can spot a fake a mile away, but to average joes a mustang is a mustang.

    I STILL get people asking if my 05 has a 5litre! WTF have YOU been?!?!

    I do get the impression that a lot of these non-enthusiast 05 Mustang owners think the GT is the fastest car on the planet. I mean, I love the car, and its quick....but they need to give their head a shake. There's always someone faster....
     
  17. 99svtlightning

    99svtlightning New Member Established Member

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    An 05 Mustang GT with a decent blower at 10psi will run right with a stock or ported Eaton Car with pulley's and bolt on's. Most of the blown GT's I've seen are trapping near 120 with lower boost levels.

    It's not fair to compare any NA Mustang to a Blown Mustang...unless it's a 5.0 Cammer, then it's a closer comparison. :rolling:
     
  18. Fiveoh93Snake

    Fiveoh93Snake Snake Bitten! Established Member

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    For me its the same thing with the 94-04 cars. Round here you prolly see 20 V6 cars to 1 GT. And everone of em has some chick drivin it. I love the retro styling of the 05GT; to me Ford nailed it and the vast majority of consumers are telling them they hit it with the sales of the 05s. It kind of erks me that it sounds like people really strongly diss the 05 for going back to its root. Many of them forgetting any and all of the mustangs heritage. Also erks me when I roll up to an 03-04 Cobra and a few times they've stuck there nose up at me. I got good news for them; had it not been for my car, or any other 93 Cobra, Lightnings on up; there car likely wouldn't even exist. But usually I get the last laugh, a quick arming of the nitrous system and they get spanked. 03-04 Cobra owners on here SVTP seem to be pretty level headed though and knowleadgeable about there cars.
     
  19. TehSleeper

    TehSleeper New Member

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    The KB prototype tester :bowdown:


    Look at the Powerhouse single turbo setup also, the car ran a 10 second pass consistently.

    http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=35921

    What's the next excuse to rip on this car? I understand you don't like the styling, but for the price range of the 05 the power and performance is spot on and better than any past mustang in the same price range. I don't see how you think the SN197s will have cooling problems seeing how there's a few problems with to much air getting into the hood, forcing many to go with hood clips because the hood begins to dance at over 100 mph. The screw type blower is a hell of alot better than the roots. Stock for Stock the GT500 is better than the cobra, mod wise we'll see but my best are on the GT500.
     
  20. halflife

    halflife New Member Established Member

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    porschebeating.jpg

    the 05 handles just fine....i was racing with a 03 cobra with 705 hp and i was passing him, along with many porsches and vettes
     

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