Coyote swap or Windsor based stroker?

Bdubbs

u even lift bro?
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
15,257
Location
MN
Hey guys,

I can't decide on which route I want to go. I'm not looking for anything radical. 400-450hp and reliable.

Currently my 90 coupe has a hci that's a very old setup. Has your usual pushrod leaks and such.

I've debated on buying a sbf long block from FordStrokers. More than likely a 331, 347, or a 363. Would be an aftermarket block and probably overkill.

Or a coyote swap which seems way more involved. But I want something I can just jump in and drive anywhere.

Currently my car has a 03-04 cobra IRS. I'd also like to ditch the T5 and possibly go with a T56. Maybe a different transmission if I plan on a coyote swap.

Ultimately, I should set a budget. But these changes won't happen all at once. If I could source a coyote engine I'd buy it, and set it aside for a while.

The Windsor based long block is around 9k. And that's not including intake and fuel upgrades....

I'm not sure if I could tackle a coyote swap on my own? Plus it would need a different k member, ect.

Help!
IMG_20210628_140139722.jpg


Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
 

q6543

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
1,440
Location
midwest
450 to the wheels??
That would actually take a pretty radical 363... or even like a windsor based 393w

Easier with a mod coyote.
There is a big backup on parts right now though and you could end up tangled waiting for all sorts of odds and ends.

Just rebuild your engine and slap a SI trim on it.
Soo much easier... make 450 in your sleep.
Super linear power curve.
 

GNBRETT

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Premium Member
Beer Money Bros.
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Messages
4,203
Location
Middle Earth
Coyote with 6r80. Good luck finding an engine builder tho. I know engines that have been waiting to be built since February....
 

Real98roush

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
482
Location
Las Vegas
Nice car! I won’t tell you what you should do, but I’ll share my experience since I had a similar dilemma a few years ago. The decision came down to something like saying MS-Dos or Windows 10?

I chose to go with the Coyote swap for reliability, and in hindsight, I’m glad I did. I’m really enjoying this car. I never did an engine swap prior, don’t have a lift or $10k worth of tools. I took my time and in the end I would say it was time consuming and a challenging, but not difficult.

It cost around $10k.

Gen 1 GT Engine 48k $3,000
Ford Racing Control Pack $1,510
Volvo PS Pump $40
Pedal bracket $80
Stifflers Crossmember $160
BBK Ceramic Headers $750
Custom 3” Exhaust $550
GP 900hp Fuel System $1,065
Moroso Battery Relocation $70
Tune $675
Misc $700

Already had MM suspension and T56

N/A made 420/370.
2790f6de8c41cf89c59dc33d64f176eb.jpg



In a lightweight platform with aggressive gearing it was a blast. I recently installed a blower.

I have a thread on here where you can see the build. It’s titled SN95 Rollercoaster

8cd8db380b2e9a35545a87e2c6b1dbdc.jpg



IG: @does_not_listen
 
Last edited:

Bdubbs

u even lift bro?
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
15,257
Location
MN
450 to the wheels??
That would actually take a pretty radical 363... or even like a windsor based 393w

Easier with a mod coyote.
There is a big backup on parts right now though and you could end up tangled waiting for all sorts of odds and ends.

Just rebuild your engine and slap a SI trim on it.
Soo much easier... make 450 in your sleep.
Super linear power curve.
No, 450 fwhp.
Nice car! I won’t tell you what you should do, but I’ll share my experience since I had a similar dilemma a few years ago. The decision came down to something like saying MS-Dos or Windows 10?

I chose to go with the Coyote swap for reliability, and in hindsight, I’m glad I did. I’m really enjoying this car. I never did an engine swap prior, don’t have a lift or $10k worth of tools. I took my time and in the end I would say it was time consuming and a challenging, but not difficult.

It cost around $10k.

Gen 1 GT Engine 48k $3,000
Ford Racing Control Pack $1,510
Volvo PS Pump $40
Pedal bracket $80
Stifflers Crossmember $160
BBK Ceramic Headers $750
Custom 3” Exhaust $550
GP 900hp Fuel System $1,065
Moroso Battery Relocation $70
Tune $675
Misc $700

Already had MM suspension and T56

N/A made 420/370.
2790f6de8c41cf89c59dc33d64f176eb.jpg



In a lightweight platform with aggressive gearing it was a blast. I recently installed a blower.

I have a thread on here where you can see the build. It’s titled SN95 Rollercoaster

8cd8db380b2e9a35545a87e2c6b1dbdc.jpg



IG: @does_not_listen
Awesome information and build! I'd probably have more into mine than you. I'd have to likely change suspension and k member.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
 

mat50ho

Active Member
Established Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
139
Location
ND
If you go with a 347 do a aftermarket block in case you want to add boost later. If you are dead set on a NA a 393 or 408 with a t56 Magnum behind it would be fun.
 

john11gt

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
837
Location
Minooka, Illinois
I’d vote for a Windsor. 400-450 whp is stupid easy for a sbf and wouldn’t really need an aftermarket block. A stock block 347 with some trickflow or AFR 205 heads, custom cam and a good intake will make that no problem. You really don’t need anything crazy for your power goals.

Coyotes make decent power but your pretty much limited to a stock motor or a stock motor with a blower and turbo because the cost of parts vs return in power just isn’t there for anything else.
That takes a lot of fun out of it IMO. Plus, coyotes sound like shit.
 

MG0h3

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
10,544
Location
El Paso, TX
It was mentioned above, by far the easiest and least labor intensive is keeping your current setup and slapping a blower on it. This will meet your goals, be the cheapest, and take the least amount of work/time.

Stock block is good to @450 rwhp but RPM is almost always the common denominator that makes them crack down the valley.

Did I miss the H/C/I combo?

If you can get by without a rebuild right now, I’d just slap a blower on it with supporting mods and work out the kinks. Not like it’s much more work to remove the blower if you nuke the engine.

Unless you want a ton of power or a show car, I’d skip the coyote. Either way you cut it, lots of work and more importantly, time!

This is a no brainer to me.

If I ever did a centrifugal blower again, I’d go bigger than I needed and wastegate it so the boost comes in and stays in.


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
 

Bdubbs

u even lift bro?
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
15,257
Location
MN
It was mentioned above, by far the easiest and least labor intensive is keeping your current setup and slapping a blower on it. This will meet your goals, be the cheapest, and take the least amount of work/time.

Stock block is good to @450 rwhp but RPM is almost always the common denominator that makes them crack down the valley.

Did I miss the H/C/I combo?

If you can get by without a rebuild right now, I’d just slap a blower on it with supporting mods and work out the kinks. Not like it’s much more work to remove the blower if you nuke the engine.

Unless you want a ton of power or a show car, I’d skip the coyote. Either way you cut it, lots of work and more importantly, time!

This is a no brainer to me.

If I ever did a centrifugal blower again, I’d go bigger than I needed and wastegate it so the boost comes in and stays in.


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
I think slapping a centri blower on it right now is a great option. I can use it for a later build if I grenade this engine.

Mods:

GT40x heads, e303 cam, GT40 tubular intake, 70mm throttle body, c&l maf sensor, 24lb injectors, 255 lph fuel pump.

I would guess I need bigger injectors? And possibly a better pro m maf sensor.

What centri blower should I be looking at? How much boost? 5-6 lbs or 8-9 lbs?

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
 

MG0h3

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
10,544
Location
El Paso, TX
I think slapping a centri blower on it right now is a great option. I can use it for a later build if I grenade this engine.

Mods:

GT40x heads, e303 cam, GT40 tubular intake, 70mm throttle body, c&l maf sensor, 24lb injectors, 255 lph fuel pump.

I would guess I need bigger injectors? And possibly a better pro m maf sensor.

What centri blower should I be looking at? How much boost? 5-6 lbs or 8-9 lbs?

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk

Those are decent parts. Not the best if I recall but I’ve been out of the game a long time. I’m sure with enough boost, you’ll hit your goal easily.

I’d find a forum, or wait til someone rings in here, on what blower to get but I’d get more than 8-9 and wastegate it if you need to to keep boost down.

I put a Vortech SC trim on my 93 5.0. Was advertised as 7-8 and I barely saw 5. Guess it was the no cats. Remember, those advertised numbers are on a stock longblock with cats.

I put AFR heads and Edelbrock RPM on my 90 and ran a single 70mm turbo. 9 psi yielded 459/503. Quick little car. You may need @11-12 to hit that number.

Get Ford Motorsport 42lb injectors (green top) and the corresponding maf. That C&L will take a metering tube for the 42s. My car with just the heads and intake and no tune ran perfect. Of course you will need a tune with boost. Want to say they installed a Mafia maf extender at the dyno so do some research on that before you buy parts. Can’t recall the better Maf for foxes. Want to say it started with an M.

I strongly recommend getting a bigger blower than advertised and doing the wastegate option. It’ll make it seem more like a roots. The 2011+ guys were doing it when they first came out.

Not sure how active the Fox platform forum is here. Corral was good back when I was in those.


Sent from my iPhone using the svtperformance.com mobile app
 

q6543

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
1,440
Location
midwest
Just a SI trim, you'll end up needing to find a tuner unless you want to go megasquirt or holley.

60lb injectors and a 450lph drop in.
Anderson Ford motorsports has been the go to best price place for decades on these kits.
GL.
 

Black Gold 380R

Multiple SVT Collector
Established Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
4,439
Location
El Paso, TX
Hello Brady,

My point of view is for reliability go with the Coyote. However, me personally, I do not like them in Fox bodies or classic Mustangs as I do "NOT" like the way they sound. Just a personal preference thing. Nothing wrong with their performance or looks in the engine bay.

I vote for you going with a 347 stroker motor. When I had mine in my 65 Mustang I loved it. Plenty of HP with the AFR heads I had on it. I also had a healthy cam in it. That thing sound like a damn race car when I cranked it. I wouldn't even have to drive it. I would go in the garage, crank it up, rev it a couple times an go back in the house with a huge smile on my face. Nothing beats the sound of a push-rod engine in my opinion.

I even had people tell me it was the bet sounding Ford small block they ever heard. It was a lot of fun socially and performance wise.

I have this guy on my favorites in YouTube. He started out running N/A with a 347 and running 9's. Freaking awesome!


He then added a Vortex Supercharger. I'm running these mufflers on my 65.


Now he's running a turbo set up on E85, but still has the 347.

I Vote 347 all day long LOL......
 

mat50ho

Active Member
Established Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
139
Location
ND
A si trim on a someday 347 would be less then ideal. I ran a D1 on a stock block motor for 3 seasons before I upgraded to a R block 347. 80 lb frs injectors , blow through maf , ran e50-e70. Never lost a headgasket. Do some research and plan it so the parts transfer to future engine combo without disappointment.
 

Bdubbs

u even lift bro?
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
15,257
Location
MN
Hello Brady,

My point of view is for reliability go with the Coyote. However, me personally, I do not like them in Fox bodies or classic Mustangs as I do "NOT" like the way they sound. Just a personal preference thing. Nothing wrong with their performance or looks in the engine bay.

I vote for you going with a 347 stroker motor. When I had mine in my 65 Mustang I loved it. Plenty of HP with the AFR heads I had on it. I also had a healthy cam in it. That thing sound like a damn race car when I cranked it. I wouldn't even have to drive it. I would go in the garage, crank it up, rev it a couple times an go back in the house with a huge smile on my face. Nothing beats the sound of a push-rod engine in my opinion.

I even had people tell me it was the bet sounding Ford small block they ever heard. It was a lot of fun socially and performance wise.

I have this guy on my favorites in YouTube. He started out running N/A with a 347 and running 9's. Freaking awesome!


He then added a Vortex Supercharger. I'm running these mufflers on my 65.


Now he's running a turbo set up on E85, but still has the 347.

I Vote 347 all day long LOL......
A si trim on a someday 347 would be less then ideal. I ran a D1 on a stock block motor for 3 seasons before I upgraded to a R block 347. 80 lb frs injectors , blow through maf , ran e50-e70. Never lost a headgasket. Do some research and plan it so the parts transfer to future engine combo without disappointment.
Thanks guys.

I'm leaning more towards a windsor. I had a 347 about 17-18 years ago. It definitely was fun!

I have so many ideas running through my head. Long term goal I may go with FordStrokers long block with an aftermarket block. Although I'm not sure if it's necessary for my power goals.

Probably a 363ci. Not sure if I should go low compression for possibly boost at a later time.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
 

john11gt

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
837
Location
Minooka, Illinois
Thanks guys.

I'm leaning more towards a windsor. I had a 347 about 17-18 years ago. It definitely was fun!

I have so many ideas running through my head. Long term goal I may go with FordStrokers long block with an aftermarket block. Although I'm not sure if it's necessary for my power goals.

Probably a 363ci. Not sure if I should go low compression for possibly boost at a later time.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk


I finished my 363 build earlier this year. I wouldn’t go any lower than 10:1 compression if you plan on boosting it. With the fuel and tuning capabilities now it wouldn’t make sense for a low compression build.
 

Bdubbs

u even lift bro?
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
15,257
Location
MN
I finished my 363 build earlier this year. I wouldn’t go any lower than 10:1 compression if you plan on boosting it. With the fuel and tuning capabilities now it wouldn’t make sense for a low compression build.
Yeah. I'm undecided if I want to run corn. I'm not looking for max HP.

In saying that, I probably could just run NA. If I was more familiar with carburetors I'd consider that.

Are you running EFI? If so, ECU setup?

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
 

john11gt

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
837
Location
Minooka, Illinois
Yeah. I'm undecided if I want to run corn. I'm not looking for max HP.

In saying that, I probably could just run NA. If I was more familiar with carburetors I'd consider that.

Are you running EFI? If so, ECU setup?

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk


If e85 is local to you, there’s not much reason not to. Even if you were to run pump gas, you could run probably 10 lbs or less and be pretty safe if you have an intercooler.

My junk is still carbureted for now. My plan was to go with the Holley terminator because of the simplicity but I’ve been on the fence between that and a blow thru carb. But I’m leaning towards the EFI again because I can have a pump gas and e85 tune because the nearest e85 is about 30 minutes from me.
 

Bdubbs

u even lift bro?
Established Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
15,257
Location
MN
If e85 is local to you, there’s not much reason not to. Even if you were to run pump gas, you could run probably 10 lbs or less and be pretty safe if you have an intercooler.

My junk is still carbureted for now. My plan was to go with the Holley terminator because of the simplicity but I’ve been on the fence between that and a blow thru carb. But I’m leaning towards the EFI again because I can have a pump gas and e85 tune because the nearest e85 is about 30 minutes from me.
I know the benefits of E85, my cobra runs on it. But honestly, I'd like to keep this car pretty simple. Just get in and drive it anywhere with some HP.

I could probably even do a basic 10:1 compression 347 with a mild cam and enjoy the heck out of it.

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk
 

MG0h3

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
10,544
Location
El Paso, TX
You’re simplest route is slapping a blower on it.

Be done in a weekend


Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
 

Users who are viewing this thread



Top