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SVTPerformance's Chain of Restaurants
The Distillery
Converting to E85?
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<blockquote data-quote="REX-RACER" data-source="post: 10240513" data-attributes="member: 14222"><p>Is it necessary to call me names just because I'm asking questions, doing some research and looking at doing something different? I thought innovation was the name of the game for people like us?</p><p></p><p> . . . Perhaps I'll just make my car just like yours and you won't think I'm and ****in idiot . . . </p><p></p><p><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite11" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll Eyes :rolleyes:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>His numbers and set up are here: <a href="http://www.e85mustangs.com/rides.html" target="_blank">http://www.e85mustangs.com/rides.html</a></p><p></p><p><em>Car Owner: Steve Shrader, Mount Holly, NC</em></p><p><em>Year/Model: 1999 Mustang GT 4.6L 2V</em></p><p><em>Dyno Results: 471 rwhp / 424 rwtq SAE</em></p><p><em>1/4 mile: 11.36 at 123.8 mph </em></p><p><em>Running E85 since: Aug 2006</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Fuel System: 60 lb Siemens injectors, 03 Cobra fuel pumps, Kenne Bell Boost-a-pump (at 30%), stock lines, rails, filter, & tank </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Other major performance upgrades: Vortech SQ Supercharger w/intercooler, 3.33" pulley, Meziere's electric water pump, 75mm Accufab Throttlebody, C&L plenum, Anderson power pipe, Pro-M MAF, 3.73 gear, Alum. driveshaft, 315/35/17 Drag Radials, separate SCT tunes by Pro-Dyno for Summer E85 and Winter E85.</em></p><p></p><p>Oh hey, I noticed he's a N.C. native too, why don't you go over to his house and beat him up!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Uhm, actually this major $$$ fuel system re-engineering seems to be a myth so say the people who have already done this sort of thing: </p><p><a href="http://hitechmotorsport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=96" target="_blank">http://hitechmotorsport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=96</a></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Now I'm not saying that I'm 100% convinced by this sort of statement, but I'm a lot more inclined to believe someone who's been to the top of the mountain rather than those who just talk about how cold they <em>think</em> it is at the peak! In reality most of the cost to do this conversion seems to be tied up in the flip chip, which I don't need, and the dyno tuning time which I was going to do anyways b/c of the N20. </p><p></p><p>I was already planning on upgrading my fuel pump to a Ford GT pump which costs around $75 and also upgrading the fuel injectors to 36# just to give myself some additional head room. So that would be about $200 from the parts guy in this forum. I was going to do these things and get tuning done anyways, so as long as I'm doing I might as well pick out components that are E85 compatible because here's the cool part, once the parts are in place I can always run conventional gasoline especially since I'm going to be tuning w/ the XCal2. I can even datalog later on down the road and do comparisons. </p><p></p><p>Otherwise I have seen no indication anywhere at all that all of this crazy and expensive reworking of the fuel system that people talk about is even necessary. If anyone has actual proof of this, I would really like to see it b/c I am trying to be as objective as possible about this and just gathering the facts. So far cost of parts is looking like $300 > and it's for stuff I was planning on doing anyways.</p><p></p><p>Furthermore, just researching my own home town in north county St. Louis suburbs, there are four gas stations offering E85 in the metro area. Two of these stations are w/ in 15 mins of my house and the closest is about 8 mins away ( I timed it the other day just to see ). Both stations offer E85 at .20c less than 87 octane which is currently about 2.689 in my area. That means 93 is running about 2.909 and the available E85 is a clear .50c less. Filling up a 13 gal tank w/ 105 octane now becomes $6.50 less than filling up w/ 93 octane! While I'm not considering this for the money savings at the pump, that part doesn't offend me! </p><p></p><p>Just for the sake of fair comparisons though, I looked up the cost of the vaunted VP Fuels 101 & 109 octane b/c that seems to be the closest ball park to the 105 octane E85. Turns out there is one VP Fuel distributor in my area. They are over in Illinois approx. 35 mins from my house. Currently their prices are $9.04/gal for 101 and $9.95/gal for 109! Assuming that I'd want to mix about two gallons of this liquid gold per tankful, I've just not spent close to an extra $30 for something that I think might be maybe-kinda-sorta about 100 octane. We won't even go into whether or not mixing vastly different fuel grades in your tank is consistent or even productive as I've heard many a tuner say that after a few hours two different fuel grades start to separate in your tank and can create inconsistent mixtures which is a tunning mightmare! </p><p>Source linkage: <a href="http://www.tuxedoparkracing.com/VPRacingFuel.html" target="_blank">http://www.tuxedoparkracing.com/VPRacingFuel.html</a></p><p></p><p>The other thing about obtaining race fuel from a shop is that typically you have to buy in at least a 5 gal drum, transport it yourself ( imagine that smell lingering in your car! ) and you can only get during the shops business hours. By running E85 available at a local gas station you can get as much as you want, whenever you want! 10 gals at 2 p.m. on Tuesday, or 5 gals at 3 a.m. on Sunday morning! Oh and if you wanna go out an have a little fun at say like 11 p.m. on Friday night and the performance shop is closed, no problem, just cruise through the local E85 station on your way to the meeting spot!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why is it that every time a conservative hears something they disagree w/ thier first reaction is to try to kick a liberal in the nutz?!</p><p></p><p>It may be that E85 is cheaper because of govt. subsidies but frankly I don't care about the why, all I care about is what I have to pay when I pull up at the pump. From my perspective if E85 did catch on w/ widening popularity that would only be good for American business since homegrown ( literally ) and also better for the environment. It's obviously better for me as the car nut b/c even if the E85 subsidies ended today and the price was $5.00/gal tomorrow, that's still half of what VP 109 costs on the other side of town during regular business hours! </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: </p><p></p><p>Dude, that's way to complicated for my puny little brain! Besides, I'm pretty sure you need to have a HazMat permit to store something like that in addition to the fact that I've got no room in my one car garage for something like that when a car is actually in there! </p><p></p><p>Seeing as how I live in a condo complex w/ a number of retirees as neighbors I'm pretty sure they'd complain to the condo assoc. about my keeping a 50 gal drum of high octane fuel in the garage or out on the back porch and doing burn outs in the common driveway! </p><p></p><p>:lol1:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="REX-RACER, post: 10240513, member: 14222"] Is it necessary to call me names just because I'm asking questions, doing some research and looking at doing something different? I thought innovation was the name of the game for people like us? . . . Perhaps I'll just make my car just like yours and you won't think I'm and ****in idiot . . . :rolleyes: His numbers and set up are here: [url]http://www.e85mustangs.com/rides.html[/url] [I]Car Owner: Steve Shrader, Mount Holly, NC Year/Model: 1999 Mustang GT 4.6L 2V Dyno Results: 471 rwhp / 424 rwtq SAE 1/4 mile: 11.36 at 123.8 mph Running E85 since: Aug 2006 Fuel System: 60 lb Siemens injectors, 03 Cobra fuel pumps, Kenne Bell Boost-a-pump (at 30%), stock lines, rails, filter, & tank Other major performance upgrades: Vortech SQ Supercharger w/intercooler, 3.33" pulley, Meziere's electric water pump, 75mm Accufab Throttlebody, C&L plenum, Anderson power pipe, Pro-M MAF, 3.73 gear, Alum. driveshaft, 315/35/17 Drag Radials, separate SCT tunes by Pro-Dyno for Summer E85 and Winter E85.[/I] Oh hey, I noticed he's a N.C. native too, why don't you go over to his house and beat him up! Uhm, actually this major $$$ fuel system re-engineering seems to be a myth so say the people who have already done this sort of thing: [url]http://hitechmotorsport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=96[/url] Now I'm not saying that I'm 100% convinced by this sort of statement, but I'm a lot more inclined to believe someone who's been to the top of the mountain rather than those who just talk about how cold they [i]think[/i] it is at the peak! In reality most of the cost to do this conversion seems to be tied up in the flip chip, which I don't need, and the dyno tuning time which I was going to do anyways b/c of the N20. I was already planning on upgrading my fuel pump to a Ford GT pump which costs around $75 and also upgrading the fuel injectors to 36# just to give myself some additional head room. So that would be about $200 from the parts guy in this forum. I was going to do these things and get tuning done anyways, so as long as I'm doing I might as well pick out components that are E85 compatible because here's the cool part, once the parts are in place I can always run conventional gasoline especially since I'm going to be tuning w/ the XCal2. I can even datalog later on down the road and do comparisons. Otherwise I have seen no indication anywhere at all that all of this crazy and expensive reworking of the fuel system that people talk about is even necessary. If anyone has actual proof of this, I would really like to see it b/c I am trying to be as objective as possible about this and just gathering the facts. So far cost of parts is looking like $300 > and it's for stuff I was planning on doing anyways. Furthermore, just researching my own home town in north county St. Louis suburbs, there are four gas stations offering E85 in the metro area. Two of these stations are w/ in 15 mins of my house and the closest is about 8 mins away ( I timed it the other day just to see ). Both stations offer E85 at .20c less than 87 octane which is currently about 2.689 in my area. That means 93 is running about 2.909 and the available E85 is a clear .50c less. Filling up a 13 gal tank w/ 105 octane now becomes $6.50 less than filling up w/ 93 octane! While I'm not considering this for the money savings at the pump, that part doesn't offend me! Just for the sake of fair comparisons though, I looked up the cost of the vaunted VP Fuels 101 & 109 octane b/c that seems to be the closest ball park to the 105 octane E85. Turns out there is one VP Fuel distributor in my area. They are over in Illinois approx. 35 mins from my house. Currently their prices are $9.04/gal for 101 and $9.95/gal for 109! Assuming that I'd want to mix about two gallons of this liquid gold per tankful, I've just not spent close to an extra $30 for something that I think might be maybe-kinda-sorta about 100 octane. We won't even go into whether or not mixing vastly different fuel grades in your tank is consistent or even productive as I've heard many a tuner say that after a few hours two different fuel grades start to separate in your tank and can create inconsistent mixtures which is a tunning mightmare! Source linkage: [url]http://www.tuxedoparkracing.com/VPRacingFuel.html[/url] The other thing about obtaining race fuel from a shop is that typically you have to buy in at least a 5 gal drum, transport it yourself ( imagine that smell lingering in your car! ) and you can only get during the shops business hours. By running E85 available at a local gas station you can get as much as you want, whenever you want! 10 gals at 2 p.m. on Tuesday, or 5 gals at 3 a.m. on Sunday morning! Oh and if you wanna go out an have a little fun at say like 11 p.m. on Friday night and the performance shop is closed, no problem, just cruise through the local E85 station on your way to the meeting spot! Why is it that every time a conservative hears something they disagree w/ thier first reaction is to try to kick a liberal in the nutz?! It may be that E85 is cheaper because of govt. subsidies but frankly I don't care about the why, all I care about is what I have to pay when I pull up at the pump. From my perspective if E85 did catch on w/ widening popularity that would only be good for American business since homegrown ( literally ) and also better for the environment. It's obviously better for me as the car nut b/c even if the E85 subsidies ended today and the price was $5.00/gal tomorrow, that's still half of what VP 109 costs on the other side of town during regular business hours! :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: Dude, that's way to complicated for my puny little brain! Besides, I'm pretty sure you need to have a HazMat permit to store something like that in addition to the fact that I've got no room in my one car garage for something like that when a car is actually in there! Seeing as how I live in a condo complex w/ a number of retirees as neighbors I'm pretty sure they'd complain to the condo assoc. about my keeping a 50 gal drum of high octane fuel in the garage or out on the back porch and doing burn outs in the common driveway! :lol1: [/QUOTE]
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