Complete bolt on Ecoboost

SID297

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No one really runs E85 in EcoBoost cars. The make more power on gas and meth injection. The fuel systems don't have enough capacity to make big power on corn.
 

Voltwings

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^^ Going to have to disagree. The thing most people don't realize (and i dont mean to sound like i'm calling you out SID) is that you don't have to run 100% E85 in a DI car to get the full effects. In most cases, it is possible to tune right past MBT on as little as 25% E85 per tank (as in 4 gallons in a 16 gallon tank). I did the math a while back, and yes, methanol + 93 does have the highest "power potential" when tuning, but E85 is an easily viable option as well.
 

SID297

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^^ Going to have to disagree. The thing most people don't realize (and i dont mean to sound like i'm calling you out SID) is that you don't have to run 100% E85 in a DI car to get the full effects. In most cases, it is possible to tune right past MBT on as little as 25% E85 per tank (as in 4 gallons in a 16 gallon tank). I did the math a while back, and yes, methanol + 93 does have the highest "power potential" when tuning, but E85 is an easily viable option as well.

That's true, but I don't recommend blending fuels like that to most. It's way too easy to screw up and add too much or too little.

Also, meth injection has the secondary effect of cutting down on carbon deposits.

Speaking of adding fuel though, I've noticed on all the new Fords with capless fuel tanks are easily over filed. Once the pump clicks off you can't put but just a tiny bit more gas in the tank before it overflows.
 

Voltwings

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That's true, but I don't recommend blending fuels like that to most. It's way too easy to screw up and add too much or too little.

Also, meth injection has the secondary effect of cutting down on carbon deposits.

Speaking of adding fuel though, I've noticed on all the new Fords with capless fuel tanks are easily over filed. Once the pump clicks off you can't put but just a tiny bit more gas in the tank before it overflows.


I preach meth kits for this exact reason, DI = no fuel passing over the valves and those things get dirty as hell. I'm also taking for granted that my DI experience comes from a platform where Cobb provides free tuning software, and virtually everyone is capable of Doing MAF cals themselves, as far as fuel blends is concerned. In that sense, i agree, from a remote tuners standpoint blending fuels could be quite the headache. Just for fun i went ahead and dug that math out though, if anyone is interested.


This post took place on facebook, so i'm just copying the relevant posts, so the context may not make sense. The math is the important part though. Basically, this car had previously been tuned on 93 and methanol, and upon switching to an E85 blend, we noticed we werent really making as much power as we previously were. I have datalogs to go with this as well, but i'll have to grab them off my home computer. We did a compression test, checked plugs, checked tune, and just on a whim after chatting with another car guy at work (who is an engineer) we started breaking down the fuel:

So heres some really interesting math we did Breaking down the different fueling choices we've had on ------- car when comparing Boost air temp, horsepower, boost, timing...

Methanol: 56,800 BTU/Gal
E85: 81,800 BTU/Gal
Gasoline: 114,600 BTU/Gal

So, using our 25% E85 blend, we basically get an effective BTU of 106,400 / gal.
(81,800 *4/16) + (114,600*12/16) = 106,400 BTU for a 25% E85 or about 30% ethanol per tank.

Next, if we inject methanol into that same 25% E85 blend.
3400 cc/min total @ 85% IDC gives us ~2890 cc/min from the stock fuel system, or 45.80 GPH.
The Meth gave us ~10.05 GPH, assuming we used ~75% of a 14 gph nozzle.
82% of our fueling was stock injectors, and 18% was methanol.

Heres where it gets really fun. We were still spraying a 25% E85 blend through the stock injectors at that point, so we had an effective BTU of 106,400 as listed above.
106,400 * .82 = 87,248
56,800 * .18 = 10,224
Effective BTU when we had the E85 and meth was 97,472

... i was hoping to prove the meth + E85 blend had more effective BTU, but it seems it was just the opposite since the E85 gets diluted with the methanol... Interesting.

Heres a real doozie ... Straight 93 with meth gives you 104,196 BTU/gal o_O

114,600 * .82 = 93,972
56,800 * .18 = 10,224
Total = 104,196

Obviously this isnt taking things into account like knock suppression or things like that, but basically you have a "higher power potential" with 93 and meth than you do with all 3? Strange indeed ...

Actually had this math confirmed by a few tuners. Interesting indeed
 

Deespeed99

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Rev Auto is working on theirs now. Waiting on the JLT, Intercooler & piping, down pipe. It's going to be a step by step comparison like the GT.
 

SID297

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Yep. That's why gasoline is such a popular energy source, energy density.

No here's a fun project I may try. There's a station close to my house that sell ethanol free 87, 89, and 93 gas. The 93 is fairly expensive but the 87 is the same price as everyone else's e10. I was thinking about getting a tune for 87 with meth injection and seeing what kind of power it makes.
 

CoastieStang

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My wife's 2012 edge is like that. What I do is once it clicks, I barely apply pressure just enough to flow and it usually let me put in about $7-10 more. I can get 160 miles out of the first 1/4 tank versus 100ish if I stop at the click. I dunno if this helps with your 15.
 

SID297

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My wife's 2012 edge is like that. What I do is once it clicks, I barely apply pressure just enough to flow and it usually let me put in about $7-10 more. I can get 160 miles out of the first 1/4 tank versus 100ish if I stop at the click. I dunno if this helps with your 15.

With the Mustang and the FiST I have had it pissing on the ground before getting an extra $1 worth in after the first click.
 

phillyboostd

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I have intake downpipe and tune car ran a 13.41 @ 101 on stock performance pack rims and tires ...auto matic

weld rt-s wth Et Street 295's are sitting at the shop should be on by next wednesday..for cecil county
 

SID297

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I have intake downpipe and tune car ran a 13.41 @ 101 on stock performance pack rims and tires ...auto matic

weld rt-s wth Et Street 295's are sitting at the shop should be on by next wednesday..for cecil county

Whose tune are you running? Have any power numbers?
 

PIKE5.0

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Lance Rainey with TURBOSS.. Soon to be 7.70 car, also has a full bolt on ecoboost. No clue on details, but I should see it soon.
 

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