Clutch issue and questions

serper3

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Hey guys, just a few questions hopefully you can help me with. I will try to keep it short to save people time, and... I am typing this out on my phone. :)
I have been having an issue with getting into gear when the car is stopped. Ihave to depress the clutch for a couple seconds and then the car goes in gear no problem. The problem can get worse as the car gets really hot, and I have to keep clutch depressed longer to engage any gear. I figured it was a bad pilot, my mechanic replaced it and it got better but still issue somewhat present. It then got worse somewhat so after a lot more research I read that I might have the clutch not releasing fully.. (clutch is a centerforce dual friction with I think an aftermarket heaver flywheel... it feels 20ish lbs)... or the 10 spline input shaft is not smooth and not free spinning from the crank/pilot bearing.
Anyway, to fix this problem, I am replacing everything clutch related... and what perfect time to go 26 spline. Here is my parts list:
Mcleod rxt, lethal sleeve, frpp pilot and tob, liberty 26 spline, fidanza aluminum flywheel, mcleod pivot ball, fiore firewall adjuster, upr tripple hook quadrant.. I really hope this all fixes my problem. What do you guys think? I don't think its the trans, it locks me out of all the gears and it down shifts into 1st and all other gears no problem when car is moving.
Right now I have the trans out of the car, and the new pilot installed. I am wondering what type of grease I should use, and how much should be applied to thbe pilot bearing? The pilot bearing I got had almost no grease in it.
Also, the new 26 spline is already in as well as the lethal sleeve. I shimmed like per instructions and did all that, I know we are supposed to measure play of the inputb shaft in and out. But I noticed there is some play side to side.. is this ok? The pilot bearings job is to keep the input shaft straight right? Theire isn't a lot of play but I can feel it by hand.. I am hoping to get confirmation that its ok, as well as what you guys think of the issue and the grease question so I can hopefully start putting everything else back in! Thanks a lot in advance guys!
 

serper3

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looks like another issue..
so i began to install the clutch... got the flywheel on, first clutch disk, the floater plate.. it seems like there is not enough clearance between the clutch disk and the floater plate. anyone have this issue? its kind of difficult to spin the disk. i guess i will call mcloed tomorrow, but anyone know why this might be? again this is with a fidanza aluminum flywheel..
thanks in advance guys!
 

cobracide

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Listen, everything has to be right and all tolerances, ect. need to be dead on within thousands of an inch, starting with the input shaft. Get the clutch to engage fully by raising an adjustable pivot ball. Your fw adjuster should be a nickle's width gap for slack. Don't ask how I know. Warped floater plate?
 
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serper3

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Listen, everything has to be right and all tolerances, ect. need to be dead on within thousands of an inch, starting with the input shaft. Get the clutch to engage fully by raising an adjustable pivot ball. Your fw adjuster should be a nickle's width gap for slack. Don't ask how I know. Warped floater plate?

the input shaft was shimmed according to what i have read on here.. less than .002 inches of shaft play. i did this. i was wondering if though some side to side play is normal. i know that when measuring play, the play of concern is the shaft moving in and out of the transmission. this shaft play needs to be less than .002. i just want to make sure that very slight side to side movement is ok since my input shaft is moving in this fashion. i am assuming its ok because i read that the pilot bearings job is to keep the input shaft still.

i have the adjustable pivot ball, but was under the impression from what i have read, the pivot ball height needs to be decreased by approximately 3-4 mm.

as far as the firewall adjuster, it seems like the consensus to leave no slack and have some preload like the car comes from the factory per 04sleeper and others.
i better re explain. i was having issues on my old setup. this was some flywheel, i think this flywheel was not stock it weighed about 20ish punds and the centerforce clutch. this issue of locking out of gear that i had was with the old 10 spline etc. outlined in post 1.
i am now in the middle of the install of all the parts. the 26 spline is already in, the new fidanza alunimum flywheel is in, the part i am at now is the floater plate seems to be too tight on the flywheel, once i torqued the floater plate down to the flywheel the bottom clutch disk is not free spinning. the .020 - .025 inch gap that is supposed to be present is not their. i am assuming at .020-.025 between the friction material and the floater plate itself is what i am checking for? i am not sure why its too tight, it doesnt seem bent because it seems pretty consistently too tight...
i also used the pins that came with the flywheel to help mount the floater plate. the clutch came with pins that on one side were the same size as the pins that the flywheel came wiht, but on the other side they were flared out to a larger diamter. i guess that this does not get used with my clutch?
i read another members post who said this his bottom plate was too tight, he ended up getting his clutch installed, and then he had to pull it apart. he didnt say what happened afterwords or what the fix was. i really dont want to cause any damage or have to take the trans out again if i can help it.
sorry for the long read guys, hopefully i will get this resolved..
 

SnakeBit

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After putting it back together, you need to look at where your clutch arm is relative to the opening it comes through. With the TOB just touching the pressure plate, the clutch arm should be between the halfway point and the back of the opening.

If the clutch arm is too far forward, you will need to remove the tranny and lengthen the pivot. This will move the clutch arm at rest towards the back of the car. If it is too far forward, it may bump up against the front edge of the opening before the clutch is fully disengaged.

If the clutch arm is too far towards the back, you will need to shorten the pivot. If too far back at rest, the clutch may not be fully engaged and your clutch arm will bang against the back edge of the opening (there is a bolt head which may be hit first).

Unfortunately, it's difficult to determine the rest position of the clutch arm until the tranny is bolted up to the bellhousing and engine.
Good luck.
 

serper3

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After putting it back together, you need to look at where your clutch arm is relative to the opening it comes through. With the TOB just touching the pressure plate, the clutch arm should be between the halfway point and the back of the opening.

If the clutch arm is too far forward, you will need to remove the tranny and lengthen the pivot. This will move the clutch arm at rest towards the back of the car. If it is too far forward, it may bump up against the front edge of the opening before the clutch is fully disengaged.

If the clutch arm is too far towards the back, you will need to shorten the pivot. If too far back at rest, the clutch may not be fully engaged and your clutch arm will bang against the back edge of the opening (there is a bolt head which may be hit first).

Unfortunately, it's difficult to determine the rest position of the clutch arm until the tranny is bolted up to the bellhousing and engine.
Good luck.

sounds good. i will probably just start with 3-4mm less that the height of the orginal pivot, bolt up 2-3 transmission to bell housing bolts and test out the orientation.
after doing more research, it looks like my current issue with the first clutch disk sticking, might be due to it being shimmed improperly. will call mcleod tomorrow to see if they want me to ship everything to them so they shim it, or if i can just by washer/shims and do it myself. or if they have any other alternative or suggestion
 

serper3

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called mcleod today and spoke with a very helpfull man. i explained my issue off the first clutch disk, (one closest to flywheel) being sandwiched too tightly with the floater plate bolted down. first off, he told me to check to make sure the flywheel was completely flat. it was. he then told said that due to very slight manufacturing variances, the floater plate might need to be shimmed. he suggested adding as thin of a shim as possible until .025 inch feeler "just slips in" he said that .01" washer shim is what i needed for a 5/16ths hole. i ended up using 2 of these .01" washers on each floater strap bolt so, 6 total. cost me a couple bucks and that put me right at .027" just slipping in which should be good. he also said that the .032-.035 is also acceptable if no other washer combination is available. he said that its a bit better to go smaller since some of this excess material will be worn away quickly during the break in period. fortunately very close to my house i have a hardware store that specializes in fasteners and such so not sure how difficult otherwise it would be to get these washers as they are specifically shimming/spacing washers. the mcleod rep reccomended dorman.
besides getting this all taken care off, getting the washers, measuring etc with work and all, all i had time for was to finish getting the clutch in, installing the bell housing and starter :( hoping to really get on it tomorrow and finish getting everything else installed!!
here is a pic just for the hell of it!
5933312196_3e93b345a1_z.jpg
 

serper3

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hey guys, just an update..
the clutch has been in the car for a almost a week now, everything seems good! love the clutch, super light pedal feel, etc. i am currently in the break in period so have not been able to get on it really.
my issue of getting into gear with my old clutch and all has been fixed! the clutch and everything works perfectly so far! i am pretty sure my issue was with the centerforce not releasing completely with the clutch in, which would keep my input shaft spinning for a while longer, and as the clutch gets hotter, it would not release slightly more..
just a heads up though to anyone doing the install in the future... not sure how some have been able to get away with using the stock pivot ball.. good thing i ordered one, (went with the mcleod pivot ball, i had to grind it down since its too long) because i read that a good amount to decrease the factory ball, is by 4 mm. i tried this first. even with the weight off the clutch fork, i still had WAYY too much preload on the clutch. i pulled the tranny and decreased it by 5 MORE mm, so total was 9 mm less than stock. this worked perfectly for me. again i am running the fidanza aluminum flywheel, rxt, ford bearings, upr tripple hook quadrant on middle setting but i tried other settings and like others said the middle one is the only that worked.. and the fiore micro click firewall adjuster. anyway, since there seems to be some disrepency with the ideal pivot ball height, looks like it should be expected that with these clutches, dropping the trans out and adjusting the height then checking proper fork position at least once is pretty much required.
 

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