Checking Someone's Work.

[Ironhand]

Not everyone has the time or the patience to put together their own motor. That is why it's extremely important to find an engine builder you can trust.

This is a 5.4 built on the premise that it will take 900-1,000rwhp without breaking.

The engine does have several important upgrades for that power like main & head studs, Manley H beams with ARP 2000 rod bolts etc.

After a simple conversation, It had my mind racing as far as is it true you get what you pay for?

From that conversation I decided that it was a wise idea to pull one piston out and look for myself.

Look what we have here.

It appears to be nothing more then a .155 wall Chrome moly pin. Anyone with a brain would not want in their engine when aiming for 1,000rwhp.


I will be doing all of my own engine builds as well as customer engine builds from now on. Nothing will be rushed or sacrificed. Quality and reliability are the only objectives, not speed or profit margin.

 

[Stew2011]

Sorry, but I do not understand your point. I am assuming you had someone else assemble the motor for you and they did not utilize the components that you paid for. Is that correct? Not trying to be a smart ass just trying to understand.

Thanks

 

[Ironhand]

Sorry, but I do not understand your point. I am assuming you had someone else assemble the motor for you and they did not utilize the components that you paid for. Is that correct? Not trying to be a smart ass just trying to understand.

Thanks

Something like that. The engine was meant to take a certain amount of power and that is what was paid for. It was built by a reputable guy (or so I thought). So I decided to check it over and my guess was sadly correct that short cuts were taken.

 

[PistolWhip]

I understand your point completely and THAT right there is why I do ALL my own work. There is simply no better investment than peace of mind. I know that when I do it myself, regardless of how much longer it may take or how much more of a PIA it will be, it will be done right.
The only part of any build I send out to be done is the machine work and balancing. Builders and technicians that will consistently put out 100% effort into someone elses product are few and far between. They do exist, but are not easy to find and are usually booked up like rock stars. If you must have someone else do your build, be sure to "stop in" and see things for yourself. Don't take anyone's word for it unless you have 200% trust in the person. There's nothing wrong with demanding value for your money and there is certainly nothign wrong with holding someone your paying accountable for their work.

 

[Stew2011]

It sucks that you can not trust anyone anymore. I as well will always do all of my own work except for machine shop functions which require specialized equipment. You have to wonder if it is a lack of QA that drives this or just tying to save a buck by using cheaper materials.

 

[Ironhand]

I understand your point completely and THAT right there is why I do ALL my own work. There is simply no better investment than peace of mind. I know that when I do it myself, regardless of how much longer it may take or how much more of a PIA it will be, it will be done right.
The only part of any build I send out to be done is the machine work and balancing. Builders and technicians that will consistently put out 100% effort into someone elses product are few and far between. They do exist, but are not easy to find and are usually booked up like rock stars. If you must have someone else do your build, be sure to "stop in" and see things for yourself. Don't take anyone's word for it unless you have 200% trust in the person. There's nothing wrong with demanding value for your money and there is certainly nothign wrong with holding someone your paying accountable for their work.

Excellent point. That is why I am gearing up with every tool for a mod motor I can possibly find to make sure that I can put one together perfectly. Quality will never be sacrificed regardless of the situation.

 

[Ironhand]

It sucks that you can not trust anyone anymore. I as well will always do all of my own work except for machine shop functions which require specialized equipment. You have to wonder if it is a lack of QA that drives this or just tying to save a buck by using cheaper materials.

Well the difference between a Chrome Moly pin and a tool steel pin is about 160 dollars a set. So Im sure that is always a factor.

I will be checking ring gap today as long as time permits.

 

[bull3441]

Did you say you wanted Tool Steel pins or just assume they came with the pistons? There's no such thing as a 1k rwhp engine that won't break. I have a Diamond 2618 piston and a cracked block to prove that.

 

[Ironhand]

Did you say you wanted Tool Steel pins or just assume they came with the pistons? There's no such thing as a 1k rwhp engine that won't break. I have a Diamond 2618 piston and a cracked block to prove that.

I didnt really say much just said what I was doing with it. And there are plenty of 1K rwhp engines that dont break. Maybe not a mod motor but the bigger push rod cars are capable of it.

I will be tracking down the pin on monday to see exactly what it is by the manufacturer. It might be their smaller 9310 pin but it appears too "bright" to be that. So we will see. Looks like I will be replacing the pistons and pins at this point with a truly custom set that has enough thickness to effectively transfer the heat energy to the cylinder walls and not break.

 

[Blackmax]

I was lucky that a local engine builder took my motor on, he is extremely picky and been building racing motors for 40 some odd years. I do not feel good about a shop that does high volume or is so busy they make you feel like they are doing you a big favor taking your money.

 

[iwannacobra5]

have you tried confronting the builder? if so, what did they say?

 

[Ironhand]

have you tried confronting the builder? if so, what did they say?

Not even worth that to be honest. Ill fix it and put it back together my way and it will be correct.

I will not cut corners as this engine is supposed to smash the known PD blown 03-04 Cobra power record.

 

[bull3441]

I didnt really say much just said what I was doing with it. And there are plenty of 1K rwhp engines that dont break. Maybe not a mod motor but the bigger push rod cars are capable of it.

I will be tracking down the pin on monday to see exactly what it is by the manufacturer. It might be their smaller 9310 pin but it appears too "bright" to be that. So we will see. Looks like I will be replacing the pistons and pins at this point with a truly custom set that has enough thickness to effectively transfer the heat energy to the cylinder walls and not break.

I meant "won't" as in bullet proof etc. Plenty of well built motors with a proper tune running high HP. Are your pistons diamond? They usually use H13 pins.

 

[Ironhand]

I meant "won't" as in bullet proof etc. Plenty of well built motors with a proper tune running high HP. Are your pistons diamond? They usually use H13 pins.

Yeah they are Diamonds but there are 4 or so pins that come in .155 wall.

We will see what plays out come Monday.

 

[GreggsSVT]

Did you say you wanted Tool Steel pins or just assume they came with the pistons? There's no such thing as a 1k rwhp engine that won't break. I have a Diamond 2618 piston and a cracked block to prove that.

I was curious about your build. I remembered reading something about your thermostat failing or something like that? Was that where the problem came from? I know you had a great builder for your engine and I was surprised.

 

[dirtyo2000]

Who is to say the pin would have failed? Maybe a few engines made 1K with the pins with no problem. Nothing is ever bullet proof. Brother riding over the 1K mark and left the track early yesterday. Was over a 100*. Said he felt that was the day. The motor is built by one of the best in the business. When the mechanic gremlin comes, the best parts still fail.

 

[Para81]

I had longtube headers installed by a performance shop and then decided they were too loud so had the local Ford dealership remove them. The mechanic at Ford said asked me "Who installed these headers? They worked on it like it was a Volkswagon"

Shop was Triple XxX motorsport in Pensacola, Fl. High price too.

 

[Blackmax]

My experience with car,boat or motorcycle shops is once they get so busy that they have to hire people its done.

 

[Ironhand]

Who is to say the pin would have failed? Maybe a few engines made 1K with the pins with no problem. Nothing is ever bullet proof. Brother riding over the 1K mark and left the track early yesterday. Was over a 100*. Said he felt that was the day. The motor is built by one of the best in the business. When the mechanic gremlin comes, the best parts still fail.

Who is to say it wouldn't fail?

Would you rather be safe then sorry?

Also, the 5.4 has some odd characteristics that makes the piston pin more important. The piston speed is higher then a 4.6, the small end of the rod and even the pistons are heavier(in a Zero deck piston). This all presents more load on the wrist pin then what a 4.6 would do.

If 160 dollars in wrist pins or even 900 dollars in new pistons prevent me from gernading the engine then that is cheap insurance.

 

[dirtyo2000]

Not arguing at all and I understand totally what you are saying. I have seen and learned tons over the years. There are very few shops that I trust and use. Your right in what you stated but not all will give overkill to a build. I have a brother in law that cuts every corner he can and never ever have problems. My brother and I have duck luck. If you think about it happening it does. When two engine builders both say they can get you 1K and the prices differ by thousands of dollars, best believe all the small details are over looked.