changing up fuel system ditching the A1000 could use some input!

[quick88lx]

So ive finally had it with my fuel pump overheating and superheating my fuel (to the point that it can be heard boiling in tank), looking for some input as to what direction to go, or an idea what i can do to try to correct the issue without slinging money all over the place.
that being said has anyone ever have any experience with any fuelab products leaning towards just replacing the aeromotive stuff with a fuelab prodigy pump and digital regulator looks very promising would love some input before i take a chance and just have the same issue :fm:

current setup:

-10 from glenns performance sump tank to pre-filter/A1000 pump/post-filter then -10line to engine bay from there it Y's into -8 to the back of both billet 1/2 inch I.D. rails, comes out the front of both rails and 180*s to the back of the blower into the respective side of a boost referenced a1000 bypass reg then finally a -8 back to the tank also running an aeromotive pump controler i have recently also insulated all the lines running under the car to try and nix radiant heat from the road transferring to the lines.

included the best pic i have of where the pump is as well.

thanks in advance,

-steve

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

Wow that's weird I never had that issue with my A1000 setup even stationed in Mobile AL... huh.. Maybe throw a controller on there? As for fuel labs.. Stay away I know a lot of people with issues.

 

[quick88lx]

it has aeromotive fuel pump controler on it this all happens on low speed and/or high speed, if its not over 80* out it doesnt seem to be a problem till ive been driving for a hour or 2 but hotter than that im lucky if i make it 10 miles even if i fill up with a full tank of cold fuel....... im pulling my hair out trying to find the source and really dont feel like puting a bandaid on it i wanna correct the issue

 

[EvilTwins]

Out of curiosity - why are you running the A1000 in the first place? It seems pretty overkill for your setup? I'm almost surprised that the pump itself hasn't been overheating - big external fuel pumps are not known for the their street manners.

Are you certain that your fuel pump controller is doing what it is meant to do? If you're cooking your fuel that fast it sounds like it isn't cutting back your pump enough - I'd definitely check into your controller and maybe touch base with Aeromotive to see what they have to say.

Have you considered using a killer chiller fuel cooler? It's somewhat of a band-aid but it might actually be one of the easier things for you to do at this point rather than changing your entire fuel system around (which from what I understand is working well other than the heat generated). Installing on the return line would probably be your best bet?

 

[Turbo96'Cobra]

Out of curiosity - why are you running the A1000 in the first place? It seems pretty overkill for your setup? I'm almost surprised that the pump itself hasn't been overheating - big external fuel pumps are not known for the their street manners.

Are you certain that your fuel pump controller is doing what it is meant to do? If you're cooking your fuel that fast it sounds like it isn't cutting back your pump enough - I'd definitely check into your controller and maybe touch base with Aeromotive to see what they have to say.

Have you considered using a killer chiller fuel cooler? It's somewhat of a band-aid but it might actually be one of the easier things for you to do at this point rather than changing your entire fuel system around (which from what I understand is working well other than the heat generated). Installing on the return line would probably be your best bet?

Probably the same reason I was running the A1000's in the early 2000's. It was all that was available to upgrade to at that time and its what people had been using in drag racing and performance cars forever (large external pump).

Technology just got better, and now we can upgrade

 

[EvilTwins]

But even GT pumps, modified FPDM and a BAP can take you a good ways... As much as I dislike returnless, this is the one place it has an advantage - heating the fuel...

But you're probably exactly right, it was what was available...

If you can fit another heat exchanger on the front of your car you can do that as well:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/att...227856667-vaeth-fuel-cooler-fuelcooler-02.jpg

 

[Turbo96'Cobra]

But even GT pumps, modified FPDM and a BAP can take you a good ways... As much as I dislike returnless, this is the one place it has an advantage - heating the fuel...

But you're probably exactly right, it was what was available...

If you can fit another heat exchanger on the front of your car you can do that as well:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/att...227856667-vaeth-fuel-cooler-fuelcooler-02.jpg

Agreed with the heating issue. But there wasn’t a lot around in 2003/4 yet. I remember the first time we built a 4.6 in 200x's we put a girdle on the motor cause thats what every one did on SBF/SBC for years. We just were so new to it we had no clue what to do and performance parts were non existent. I remember pulling injectors from a navigator and then went out and did street pulls until we could figure out how to trim the fuel curves lol. That’s how bad it was in the early 2000's, we couldn’t even find people to tune the cars. First dyno tune in my GT back in 2000 with a D1SC on it blew it up on the dyno with a built motor in it. So we just started tuning shit ourselves...

OP- There is no cheap way or easy way to put this. Either plug the sump on your stock tank or buy a new 03 tank. Get a fuel hat and pumps and don’t look back. Yes it going to cost some $ but you will not regret it.

Glenns Also offers this for your external: http://www.glennsperformance.com/pr...ducts_id=98&osCsid=hq1emh7pe9jqcla8voq5ivkbr7

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

I didn't even run a fuel controller on my A1000 setup. Thing was working just fine when I sold it to my buddy too. I could go all day driving in the heat of AL stop and go, freeway it didn't matter..

Also big external pumps have come a long way. I don't hear about much fuel boiling and there are plenty of people running them.

 

[static74]

Ran an A1000 on the street for a couple years, never a single problem. 100*F days, stop and go traffic, long cruises, you name it. Have you called Aeromotive about the issue? You may have a bad pump.

 

[Swervedriver]

I run a pair of Jayracing pro 044 pumps external with a glennsperformance tank. No voltage controller or fuel cooler and I haven't had any issues with this setup.

A1000s have built a reputation for being finicky dating back before 2003.

 

[Turbo96'Cobra]

OP- If you are going to stick with a External Pump, I would recommend Magna Fuel. I have never had any issues with either one of my pumps that I bought from them and they are by far better priced then Aeromotive. My MagnaFuel 750 is a 2000hp rated pump, it was 45x bucks. I have been running E85 through it for three/four years no issues. My Drag car also has the 750 and is on E85, No issues.

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

Yea but they redesigned the a1000 a while ago.. New ones haven't had a issue that i've seen besides this one.

 

[quick88lx]

Out of curiosity - why are you running the A1000 in the first place? It seems pretty overkill for your setup? I'm almost surprised that the pump itself hasn't been overheating - big external fuel pumps are not known for the their street manners.

Are you certain that your fuel pump controller is doing what it is meant to do? If you're cooking your fuel that fast it sounds like it isn't cutting back your pump enough - I'd definitely check into your controller and maybe touch base with Aeromotive to see what they have to say.

Have you considered using a killer chiller fuel cooler? It's somewhat of a band-aid but it might actually be one of the easier things for you to do at this point rather than changing your entire fuel system around (which from what I understand is working well other than the heat generated). Installing on the return line would probably be your best bet?

appreciate your input, the method to my madness is i got everything a few years ago from a friend for less than what one would pay for a fuel hat......that said at the time fore had stopped making their fuel hats when they closed down. additionally they were going for a premium used. I was building the system in advance for the plans i had down the road, which are coming to fruition here in the next couple months when i bolt on the 2.6 kb im getting from a friend upon my sept. move to D.C. AS well installing/degreeing the cams i have. At that point with my built drivetrain ill be bringing the kb to its efficiency limits as far as boost goes on e85 (potentially running out of pump with even the A1000 factoring the 30% more fuel e85 calls for would put the cap on the pump at 700hp to the best of my understanding)

as far as putting a fuel cooler on already picking up a killer chiller for the blower and have considered utilizing the 7gal resivoir mounted in my trunk that will be icy cold and mounting a fuel cooler inside it and just running the return through it then back out strait down to the tank, as opposed to a fuel "cooler" that is just taking in air off the pavement that is near 150* here in albuquerque and almost as hot in louisiana correct me if im wrong but dont feel like it would help very much as well as blocking airflow across the other cooling "surfaces" i.e. radiator in the grill area. again if im out in left field with any of this thinking PLEASE correct me lol

now if this could just be signs of an older pump saying its about to give up the ghost and all i need is to swap it im all about it, im not about taking $3-500 shots in the dark. trying to work through this with others input/opinions/first hand experience as logically as possible.

when setting up the pump controller i followed Aeromotives directions to the T.

the thing that drives me nuts most of all is i did my buddys fuel system right after mine the same way with minor differences and he has never had an issue.....EVER:cryying:
oly differences being he picked up a used glens tank that has a -12 feed to the pump then goes into -10 to factory rails into a magnafuel reg and back to the tank -8......... no controller its on full kill all the time drives hours to dallas frequently in the heat ..... no issues:??:


overall i love the fuel system aside from the heating issue never had a problem, maby when i get to D.C. it will be cool enough to where it wont be an issue but id rather fix the short coming stated than pretend its not an issue.

 

[quick88lx]

Yea but they redesigned the a1000 a while ago.. New ones haven't had a issue that i've seen besides this one.

is there a possibility/way to tell if i have a pre 2003 pump?
my pump looks like this

whereas his looks like this

 

[quick88lx]

OP- If you are going to stick with a External Pump, I would recommend Magna Fuel. I have never had any issues with either one of my pumps that I bought from them and they are by far better priced then Aeromotive. My MagnaFuel 750 is a 2000hp rated pump, it was 45x bucks. I have been running E85 through it for three/four years no issues. My Drag car also has the 750 and is on E85, No issues.

been tossing around the idea of trying a different brand external as there's potential for it being the easiest fix and have been doing a bunch of research on all pumps considered but what i gathered was doesn't matter the pump people are divided down the middle whether a brand/pump is great, or just a great way to turn large sums of money into useless car parts......

 

[badcobra]

Call Aeromotive and explain the issue you are having and see if they will exchange that pump for you for a small fee. I would do that before you start throwing parts at it.

 

[keith89]

Instead of switching fuel pumps, change how your lines are routed. I had the same issues with fuel being overheated. When i first when return style with dual external walbro pumps. I battled burned out pumps for a year. after replacing 3 pumps and being stranded due to overheated fuel causing fuel pressure issues, I decided to find the source of the fuel heat. It turns out the fore innovations fuel rails were sucking up engine heat and transferring it to the fuel. Like most people with return fuel systems, I had a flow through setup where the fuel flows through the back of the rails and exits the front to the regulator and returning to the tank. The problem with this, is the fuel is constantly circulated through the hot rails and getting hotter and hotter until you have fuel boiling and pump cavitation issues(does not affect return systems with fuel pumps in the tank as much). External fuel pumps may have to suck fuel at times causing a low pressure area in the fuel line just before the pump. Gasoline has a low boiling point, so hot gas + vacuum = vapor lock.

I fixed this by going with a dead head return system. I capped the front of each fuel rail and have the rears fed by the pressure side of the circuit before the regulator. Therefore, the fuel does not constantly circulate through the rails to soak up heat. My fuel pressure is actually more stable and my pumps(now a single magnafuel) stay cooler. This setup is also cheaper as it requires less hose and fittings. It is also a neater setup as you do not have the crossover hose around the supercharger or hoses hanging off the front of the fuel rails. Many people warned me this setup would not work as they believed the injectors would not be supplied the correct fuel pressure since fuel is not constantly flowing through the rails. Their explanations did not make sense. As fuel is released through the inejctors, it is backfilled with more fuel since it is under constant fluid pressure.

 

[quick88lx]

Instead of switching fuel pumps, change how your lines are routed. I had the same issues with fuel being overheated. When i first when return style with dual external walbro pumps. I battled burned out pumps for a year. after replacing 3 pumps and being stranded due to overheated fuel causing fuel pressure issues, I decided to find the source of the fuel heat. It turns out the fore innovations fuel rails were sucking up engine heat and transferring it to the fuel. Like most people with return fuel systems, I had a flow through setup where the fuel flows through the back of the rails and exits the front to the regulator and returning to the tank. The problem with this, is the fuel is constantly circulated through the hot rails and getting hotter and hotter until you have fuel boiling and pump cavitation issues(does not affect return systems with fuel pumps in the tank as much). External fuel pumps may have to suck fuel at times causing a low pressure area in the fuel line just before the pump. Gasoline has a low boiling point, so hot gas + vacuum = vapor lock.

I fixed this by going with a dead head return system. I capped the front of each fuel rail and have the rears fed by the pressure side of the circuit before the regulator. Therefore, the fuel does not constantly circulate through the rails to soak up heat. My fuel pressure is actually more stable and my pumps(now a single magnafuel) stay cooler. This setup is also cheaper as it requires less hose and fittings. It is also a neater setup as you do not have the crossover hose around the supercharger or hoses hanging off the front of the fuel rails. Many people warned me this setup would not work as they believed the injectors would not be supplied the correct fuel pressure since fuel is not constantly flowing through the rails. Their explanations did not make sense. As fuel is released through the inejctors, it is backfilled with more fuel since it is under constant fluid pressure.

When I took temps off the rails it was I was getting 180* temps and was thinking that may be where I'm getting the heat but at the same time I felt that if I was having this issue I feel many more would be as well i have consider making a phenolic spacer and heat taping the rails to try and keep heat out. After hearing your take on it it may be something I need to try and like you said everyone says not to dead head but I haven't been able to see a valid reason why not saying there isn't just that I don't see one. If you think about it the factory rail "dead heads" so I Dont see why this wouldn't work?

 

[keith89]

When I took temps off the rails it was I was getting 180* temps and was thinking that may be where I'm getting the heat but at the same time I felt that if I was having this issue I feel many more would be as well i have consider making a phenolic spacer and heat taping the rails to try and keep heat out. After hearing your take on it it may be something I need to try and like you said everyone says not to dead head but I haven't been able to see a valid reason why not saying there isn't just that I don't see one. If you think about it the factory rail "dead heads" so I Dont see why this wouldn't work?

Most people don't have the same issue because they are running in tank fuel pumps with the fore or similar fuel hat. This submerges the fuel pickups instead of having to be fed through a tube. The fuel may get hot, but the pump will not be starved for fuel or suck in vapor while it is in the tank. 180 degrees is enough to turn fuel to vapor at normal atmospheric pressure. It does not turn to vapor in the rails because it is under pressure. However, the low pressure point in the fuel line just before the fuel pump is a low pressure area and can cause it to turn to vapor. You will notice the pumps get louder than normal and having trouble holding pressure.

 

[quick88lx]

"Lightbulb!" Make much more sense now to me this seams like a great place to start and just see if it corrects my issue especially since I can just run down the street and pick up what I need and worse case scenario I'm out 50-75 bux for for a couple new fittings and a short section of new hose and to make sure I'll be running this right I'm going to have my feed line run to the back of both rails, cap off the fronts then have the feed continue to one side of the reg to be returned to the tank and cap the other side of the reg? Also what size vent do you have on your tank I may get a bigger one I currently have a 3/8" vent