Iron blocks are part of the reason Cobra owners are reporting 80,000 + miles without any motor problems. Just read a member hit eighty thousand miles in the Terminator Talk thread. Ford motor company and SVT researched both blocks and the outcome was the heavy iron but proven reliable block. His car is pullied and ported!!!!!!!!!!!
Cast iron block vs. Aluminum block
- Thread starter SlowSVT
- Start date
TEABG said:
Using the cheaper iron black is not the main reason for anyone having higher mileage. If you go by that logic, then the iron block is also the reason many owners have popped stock engines. Ford went with the iron because it was cheap, quick, and proven. They didn't want to spend the time or money required to properly design, tool, and build a suitable aluminum replacement for the Teksid block.
- If everyday durability of aluminum is an issue, how many high end, high HP, modern PRODUCTION street cars (Porche, AMG, Ferrari, Lambo, BMW, McLaran F1, austin martin, NSX, ..) come with cast iron engines? ZERO
- given the SAME geometry, sure the cast iron block is stronger, but you can design an aluminum block to handle as much hp as anyone needs, without the weight penalty of cast iron.
- out of all the available 4.6 mod motor blocks, the teksid block is the strongest, (its been beaten to death but I'm going to state it again incase jpjr & others happens to read it.)
- NASCAR use IRON blocks because they have to, just like NASCAR engines have to use carburators. How many of you wants to go back to a carburator instead of EFI?
(OFF topic) alot of '01 cobras actually come with teksid motors, there are pics in the New Edge forums thread to prove it.
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Serpentor said:
Because they use blocks that cost in excess of $14,000. Cost effective to use an iron block V aluminum block. Yes you make a aluminum block that has the strength as a iron block, it will cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. As a consumer it will be factored into the M.S.R.P of a new vehicle.
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TEABG said:
Not so. The teksid block is every bit as strong as many of the high end blocks. Ford just cut it's ties with Teksid so they could start building their own inferior Aluminum blocks, which happened to suck bad, and gave all aluminum Mod blocks a bad name. And to be honest, the Teksid block was not that much more than the iron block. If Ford had continued doing business with Teksid then there would have been a Teksid block in the 03/04 Cobras, this I can guarantee. And the reason most of these blocks for the high end companies are so expensive is because they can charge that and people will pay that amount for it because they are a more limited production most of the time, and more limited than even a cobra. As soon as I have the funds I will be switching to a Teksid if I can find one.
-Jeff
TEABG said:
Motors grenade because of detonation (most of the time). The material that the block is made of really has nothing to do with it. When you throw a rod the chances are high that it is going to shoot through the block. Now, the 03/04 Cobra motors have pretty strong rods, so this is rare, and has nothing to do with the material that the block is made of. Most of the 03/04 cobra engine failures are due to the pistons. Either the Teflon wears off, a hole is burned through the top, or the skirting fractures. And all of these failures have nothing to do with the block, other than poor sizing of the cylinders.
Is this arguement still going on?
oke:
WDW MKR nails it.
Let us not forget the Teksid blocks were outsourced to Italy. Why? Because ford didn't have sufficient technology to make a strong aluminum block.
The WAP blocks of 99+ are ford's most recent efforts. They're good, just not as good as the Teksid ones.
Jason
:beer:
oke: WDW MKR said:
WDW MKR nails it.
Let us not forget the Teksid blocks were outsourced to Italy. Why? Because ford didn't have sufficient technology to make a strong aluminum block.
The WAP blocks of 99+ are ford's most recent efforts. They're good, just not as good as the Teksid ones.
Jason
:beer:
TEABG said:
Detonation kills internals... not the block. You are aware that the aluminum blocks still use an iron cylinder liner, correct? I think you are incorrectly measuring the strength of a cylinder block against the general durability of aluminum stock vs. steel stock. The rigidity in the Teksid blocks comes from the design, not the material. It is the structure that correctly channels stress/force to the appropriate spots. You want this with any block, regardless of material.
TEABG said:
no it will not cost $$$$$$$$$$, it will be incrementally more expensive but a properly designed aluminum block will not use that much more material then a cast iron block. The key to a strong aluminum block design is reinforcement in key areas, not adding material everywhere.The manufacturing cost differential is more in the order of hundreds $ per block. Its not $$$$$$$$$$$ as you put it.
kit5pt0 said:
If you're building a new shortblock, you'll want to install better pistons and rod bolts than what comes in the Terminators.
01cobravortech
Banned
WDW MKR said:
Just curious where Manley pistons rank? What pistons would you place above the Manley and what rod bolts would you suggest that are superior to the stock ones?
01cobravortech said:
Manley doesn't make the pistons in the 03/04 Cobra... Zollner does. They are OK quality. The tight PTW clearance in these engines make it worse. Manley has a new piston that MMR helped to design. It is supposed to be very nice. The old Manley pistons had problems. I have Ross blower pistons in my car. Most will tell you that CP, Diamond, MMR-spec Manely, and Ross are great options. The CP are probably the beefiest, but also heavy. The Diamond are supposed to be the quietest. It is best to stick with what your builder stands behind, so long as it is one of the quality offerings.
The Cobra come with ARP rod bolts from the factory, but they are just standard grade. You want the ARP2000 rod bolts. They are stronger. ARP makes two grades higher than the 2000-series, but they are special order and not available for all rods.
01cobravortech
Banned
WDW MKR said:
I'm confused? Ford advertises that the 03/04 Cobra has Manley rods? Is that misleading on the exterior?
You asked about pistons, not rods. The rods are definitely Manley h-beams. Not sure what you're getting at with the exterior remark.
so just to elongate this thread even further...
where would the frpp aluminum 5.0 cammer block fall into this discussion?
is it stronger than the wap? not as strong as the iron? not as strong as the teskid?
suitable for a terminator blown application build up? great thread and discussion
:beer:
FRPP part# M-6010-T50
where would the frpp aluminum 5.0 cammer block fall into this discussion?
is it stronger than the wap? not as strong as the iron? not as strong as the teskid?
suitable for a terminator blown application build up? great thread and discussion
:beer:
FRPP part# M-6010-T50
holy moneybags batman.. 3.1 grand for just the block. I cant tell from the pic if its based on the Teksid or WAP, the intake vally doesnt have the features of either one...
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