Cabin insulation...

[*Jay*]

Did a quick search and did not see anything real definitive so I will pose the question here. After about an hour of driving in ~90F my trans tunnel near the fire wall reads 130F down to 120F after the front seats while the area where the front floor mats are reads 100F on both sides. I am looking advice on how to keep the radiant heat from my exhaust/engine out of the cabin so that my AC with killer chiller can keep up and keep the boss (wife) comfortable.

I would prefer to go with an insulation under the carpet, I would like to stay away from any insulation that requires a sprayer if at all possible just because I dont have any air tools. I would be open something under the car as well but again would prefer to stay away from anything that is sprayed unless it is a spray can or rolled on. If anyone has any before/after temp comparisons I would love to read about your experience.

The only product I am considering so far.

http://store.secondskinaudio.com/heat-wave-pro/

 

[Woody6799]

The only way I would consider doing this would be extra heat shielding mat between the trans and the tunnel, and then more inside the cabin under the carpet. I am not sure if Dynamat has any insulation value but there is a guy on here somewhere that was messing with some heat shielding on his IRS I believe. I will poke around and see if I can find the link.

 

[mavericks-03svt]

http://www.lizardskin.com/car-ceramic-insulation.html

this stuff works good and is not too expensive but you have to spray in on

 

[*Jay*]

Time for an update, after some thought I decided to give the method below a try and so far I am very happy and I will call this project a success.

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/interior-articles/488907-budget-insulation.html

During stop and go city driving the AC actually can keep us comfortable and not sweating our butts off. Today was hotter than the day I posted this and that day was mostly highway driving. Before lining my cabin at highway speed we were still hot with the AC blasting but as soon as we started the stop and go that day we really started cooking.

I lined my floor pan, trans tunnel and as much of the fire wall as I could reach with the foam/foil insulation. Two rolls of the foam/foil and one roll of aluminum tape later and my Cobra has been approved by the wife for heat wave cruising. Today the temp was in the mid 90's and the heat index was just above 100, after some running around, baking in the sun and lots of stop/go traffic my Cobra was nice and hot and and the AC was actually able to cool the cabin and keep us comfortable. This was all stop and go driving, I expect highway cruising will be even better.

When we got home I took out the temp gun and compared temps. The only noticeable drop was the trans tunnel, it read a max of 105F. The floor boards didnt change and still read around 100F. I started checking the roof, dash, doors and every surface except the seats read about the same 100F so I am assuming that this is just what happens when you park a car in the sun and the ambient temp is so high.

Hardest part was getting the E-Brake boot off and figuring out how to remove my center console but all in all I would say that the end result was worth the 6 hours I spent sweating in my garage.

 

[Boogie Chillin]

Good to see some results. My car is an oven as well. I might tackle the project later this year after I get the KC in and get to drive it for a day or two. I'm pretty sold on the idea that you have to keep the heat out of the cabin altogether. So, dropping the trans and getting the reflective heat shielding in the tunnel is my plan.

 

[SVT_Troy]

Jay this may be a nice project for me, thanks for posting as hate how hot the cabin temps are in the summer!

Did you double layer the tape or just a single?

 

[*Jay*]

Jay this may be a nice project for me, thanks for posting as hate how hot the cabin temps are in the summer!

Did you double layer the tape or just a single?

Started with a single layer and taped the seams. Thinking about an extra layer over the tunnel but with the stuff in my opening post but not until I add a heat exchanger bypass and insulate all the HE lines.

 

[*Jay*]

Good to see some results. My car is an oven as well. I might tackle the project later this year after I get the KC in and get to drive it for a day or two. I'm pretty sold on the idea that you have to keep the heat out of the cabin altogether. So, dropping the trans and getting the reflective heat shielding in the tunnel is my plan.

Man would I have a ball with a FLIR. Only way I will get one is if I start hog hunting. Please be sure to post some before and after thermal shots, would love to see that. Care to get some shots of your doors/roof after a hot day with your ac going. Would love to find some more areas to try and insulate.

 

[*Jay*]

Update #2

Since I have a Killer Chiller installed I decided to take the heat exchanger off-line to test out the in cabin AC temps. With a ~100F heat index, car nice and heat soaked (driven to operating temp, parked for one hour in sun) and the HE still in-line the AC vent temp leveled off at a low of ~68F if I remember correctly during highway cruising (MAX AC, level 1 fan). At the time I was more concerned with the trans tunnel/floor pan temps so I was not monitoring vent temp as closely as I should have been for a true comparison. Today with a ~80F heat index and the HE off-line my AC vent temp leveled off at ~45F, the only difference in test procedures being the ambient temp outside. Will get more data when it warms back up over 90F but as it stands with my HE off-line my AC vent temp dropped >20 degrees, I dont think this will change much in hotter weather but will follow up.

Now for a couple unrelated insulation questions. What sensor pulls timing and at what temp??? Do I have enough coolant capacity for a off-line HE??? Current capacity is just under one gallon.

I currently have a Lethal IC tank installed and during extended city driving my IAT2 (charge) matched my IAT1 (intake) temps. Reason I ask this is because on a hot day (charge was at 118F) I went to jump on the highway and I think I had some timing pulled. This was only determined by my seat-o-pants meter which is not calibrated. When I do step on the happy pedal it takes a few seconds for the charge temps to start coming down but I have not rowed it all the way out to see how low, on ramps usually get me about a 10F drop before I am cruising again.

I understand that the charge temp is NOT the temp of the coolant in the IC tank and that the temp in the tank is in fact much lower than my charge temp displayed. I am reading the intake/charge temps with an Aeroforce gauge, constructive input is appreciated and thanks in advance. Link to my IC res is below.

http://www.lethalperformance.com/sh...-03-04-cobra-intercooler-reservoir-black.html

 

[SID297]

Heatshield Products have a lot of products that can really help you out. I'm a big fan of the spray-on solutions.

 

[Heatshield]

Under Carpet Insulation

Jay & Boogie Chilling

Sorry, it's a long one.

FULL Disclosure - Yes i work for Heatshield Products. I have been working there since 1985 when i was a kid and it was my dad and grandpa. Now it is my dad and i. I am the head peon, dad is always the final word. This is our first post here and i promise myself and anyone else here will to try and be as objective as possible. We will always highlight our products. However if you already have a competitors product in hand and it is similar to ours, the same physics & chemistry (probably) apply. Just keep in mind our temperature ratings and descriptions 99% of the time more accurate. We are an insulation company, and we suck at marketing. We are trying to fix that so hopefully we can help debunk some of the bs that is out there.

The absolute best way to stop heat is by stopping it at the heat source with an insulator. Exhaust wrap is nice, but abetter product is our Heatshield Armor. The next best way, is to stop it is on the hot side of the floor pan or firewall. A radiant heat shield barrier underneath stops heat before it gets into the metal. It is really hard to dissipate heat once it is inside. The micro sphere ceramic coatings would actually do better for heat on the hotside (floor pan/firewall)

Sound dampers/insulation - A lot of manufacturers will claim, stick this stuff inside to stop heat and sound. The damping sheets with butyl and aluminum (even our own db Suppressor) turn the sound/vibration energy into low level heat. You will notice in the winter when it is freezing for you folks in the northeast, your car is louder because its too cold for these sheets to work as efficiently as they do in say 70-80F. The only way these sheets could be used to stop heat, is if you were to stick them underneath so the foil that dampens the vibration could reflect radiant heat. They may temporarily slow the heat down in the sense it is another layer for heat to pass through, but they do not offer any physical or chemical properties to actually dissipate heat on the inside.

So what do you do if you are like me and don't have a lift (sewing machines, weaving machines, braiding machines, but no stinking lift)? I had a friend from Baer brakes complaining about the heat inside his sleeper turbo charged ranger in the Phoenix summers. He was my first test mule. We make a 1/8" thick black textile we use for welding. He put some on his roof/ceiling above his headliner and some under his carpet. He told me that was the first time his AC had ever worked during the summer in Phoenix.

Alternate economical solution - go to a big box hardware store, or carpet store and get some of that recycled cotton/jute material and use that under your carpet. IT won't be as efficient as our product, but it's a lot cheaper and should provide some relief. It will sure work a lot better than a sound damper.

AC help- You can also try to help your AC out but shielding them with a heat shield sleeve. If you have at least 1" of airspace an aluminumzed sleeve will be very efficient. Again we make it, but you can get them from another company. The trick will be, sealing the ends of the sleeve. Any heat shield sleeve can be a little lose on the line or wire as long as you seal the ends. You can use heat shrink, heat shield tape, zip ties, whatever. The trick is to make sure no heat sneaks in behind the sleeve.

Jay can you post or send a picture of your engine bay/intercooler set up. I'll see if i can help.

Boogie what model of Flir is that? I may want you to take some images on a left/right with your camera if you are interested. We always prefer third parties do videos for us. Its less company propaganda and a better review.

Woody6799* - terrific avatar.

Just a heads up, we just finished a video that will go live in a few weeks on our Header Armor. We dropped 700F of header heat down to 140F in a header warranty friendly way. A great way to keep heat out of your car, i wish i could give you a sneak peek, but we still have a little tweaking to do. Keeps your eyes open for it on our YouTube channel. I'll try to stop with the pugs.

 

[*Jay*]

Heatshield,

Thanks for the info and homework, it may be a while for the pics but what exactly are you looking for with the IC pics??? Also what product are you talking about for the "AC Help", are you talking about wrapping the refrigerant lines or something else???

From browsing your site I am interested in the "heat shield armor" for the top half of my exhaust, X-pipe and cats and/or the "sticky shield" as a radiant barrier above the exhaust components. I dont feel like dropping my trans for shielding in that area but I know it would be a good thing. Let me know what you think and thanks for the info.

 

[Heatshield]

On the IC Pics, just the over all set up. Maybe a few close ups of the areas you think might be getting hot.i will definitely have follow up questions.

AC help- i am referring to the AC lines. Those black rubber hoses soak up heat. IF you shield them, you can help keep the air headed to the interior cooler, making it work more efficiently.

Heatshield Armor and Header Armor are the ticket. Keeping the heat in the exhaust will help lower underhood temperatures, keep your interior cooler. Sticky Shield in addition to will guarantee you keep cool. Getting back to your IC set up, potentially you could use the Sticky Shield there. The only hesitation i have is not letting it breathe to cool. Pics will help asses everything better.

I don't blame you for not wanting to drop your trans, that's a pain in the keester for sure.

 

[1Fast-Turbo-Cou]

My entire car is sound dampened with damplifier pro and it works very well for sound. But I will be insulating the entire cabin very soon with shielding from heat shields products. I've used their products throughout my entire engine bay and on the whole turbo system and I've been extremely happy with them! The stuff is awesome and does exactly what it's supposed to do. I'm actually planning to add even more of their products in certain areas of the engine bay and under the car. I'll probably build some heat shields for the headers, mufflers, and top of the X pipe. These products really are functional and easy to use.

 

[*Jay*]

For the AC lines what would you recommend???

As far as the heat exchanger goes I dont think shielding will help it at all, wrapping the lines that circulate the coolant however will.

What do you have that will work better than foam pipe insulation, as of right now that stuff is all I know that anyone has used for the HE lines. Anything that can make my AC more effective will make my Killer Chiller more effective which is what Im after. It will probably be the same stuff you recommend for the refrigerant lines.

 

[Heatshield]

Thanks for the Kind Words 1Fast-Turbo. We try.

Jay if you have an air gap, at least 1" from heat source for your AC lines. Any aluminized sleeving will work. Ours is called Thermaflect Sleeve, but any one like that will work just fine.

If you are generating that kind of heat, you may also think about adding some extractors/louvers to your hood. Good air flow is a huge part of thermal dynamics. In addition to the cooling benefits it can add a little downforce if you are racing/autocrossing your car.

Thos old tiger Racing hood back when Paul was still around were pretty awesome for both. He helped us test products.

 

[SVT_Troy]

Steve aka True Forged is currently working on producing a functional heat extractor hood based on Race Bronco's design. I'm sure you already know about it Jay. I got in on the group buy!.

To Heat shield products. Have you considered making a molded lower intake shielding for our car like you do for others?

Troy

 

[Heatshield]

SVT_Troy All i need is access to the intake, we can make them. Our only limitation is access to parts.

We are also going to be launching universal DIY kit soon. I'm just trying to hunt down a local engine builder with a Dyno to make a video.

 

[Boogie Chillin]

Regarding the flir, it is one of the high end man portable units. I dont have the model in front if me. We can work something out regarding photos etc. My car is currently in pieces while im installing gear and waiting on parts, so I can't get it up to temps.

 

[Boogie Chillin]

Man would I have a ball with a FLIR. Only way I will get one is if I start hog hunting. Please be sure to post some before and after thermal shots, would love to see that. Care to get some shots of your doors/roof after a hot day with your ac going. Would love to find some more areas to try and insulate.

No problem. I'll get some shots once I get it put back together. I did a series last year and posted it:

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?1030532-03-Cobra-Thermal-Images