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Bringing the 4lb Caged lower back from the Dead?

Discussion in 'Terminator Talk' started by cj428mach, Sep 25, 2015.

  1. cj428mach

    cj428mach Well-Known Member Established Member

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    While at the shop picking up these last 2 pulleys I've ordered another 20 pulleys to be built, and are expected to be available the 1st-2nd week of June. This run of pulleys will wipe out out the rest of my supplies (studs, locking hubs) and will more than likely be the end of the 4lb caged pulleys at least for a long time. These last and final kits are now (SOLD OUT).

    (SOLD OUT)The idlerless kit includes
    *4lb Hard Anodized pulley
    *3 custom 5/16" custom press in studs, and lock nuts
    * bushing material
    *1 piece 4140 hardened steel locking hub

    The price will still be $465 shipped for the idlerless kit but there are a few upgrades over the last kit. The locking hub included in the kit is now the 1 piece design. The other improvement while it has no effect on performance it does improve the looks, the word TERMINATOR will be engraved in the lower pulley on the area between each set of bushing holes. This should add a little flavor to the pulley....and lets face it we all love Terminator on our cars, lol.

    Here is a picture of the new Terminator Kits
    [​IMG]

    If you'd like to reserve one of these pulleys I'm accepting $50 deposit to get on the list. The deposit is nonrefundable unless I don't deliver then I'll refund the deposit. Its not refundable because you changed your mind....sold the car...or can't come up with the remaining $415 to complete the transaction. The shop told me 6-8 weeks delivery time, please allow for up to 10 weeks just to be safe.

    (SOLD OUT)If you'd like a complete kit with idler the price is $525 shipped with an initial deposit of $110 and $415 due upon complete of the pulley kits.
    (SOLD OUT) This kit include the following
    *4lb Hard Anodized pulley
    *3 custom 5/16" custom press in studs, and lock nuts
    * bushing material
    *1 piece 4140 hardened steel locking hub
    *70mm BilletProShop idler

    This will be everything needed to convert your existing stock caged lower to a 4lb lower.

    Basic Disassembly can be seen in post #159
    Assembly and Clocking of the Drive Assembly is in post #279

    Like on the first run I am self funding this project with my money, and your deposit money isn't needed to fund the project, its just a requirement in order to reserve a pulley. Whenever a person has to use the customers money to help fund a project you're asking for disaster....which is why I'm telling you this. :thumbsup:

    Here is the current list of people that have reserved pulley kits as of 5-13-16
    01. Vincent Howse-Pulley kit with Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    02.Tommy Wright-Pulley Kit Only Paid in full/Shipped
    03. Ryan Maxey-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    04. Vincent Rayesky-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    05. Robert Condren-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    06. Donny Haw-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    07. Mitchell Hobson-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    08. Catherine Brzozowski-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    09. Eric Vincent-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    10. Matt Haynes-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    11. Tim Brewster-Pulley Kit Only Paid in full/Shipped
    12. Russell Flansburg-Pulley Kit Only Paid in full/Shipped
    13. Johnnie Prugh-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    14. Steve Zelent-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    15. Bradley Kelly-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    16. Anthony Morgan-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    17. Mario Mitreski-Pulley Kit With 2 Idlers Paid in full/Shipped
    18. Malcolm Strydom-Pulley Kit With Idler Paid in full/Shipped
    19. Jacob Reiter - Pulley Kit Only Paid in full/Shipped
    20. Dennis McCrary-Pulley Kit Only Paid in full/Shipped
    _________________________________________________________________________
    Would there still be interest in a larger caged lower pulley that would be a direct replacement for the stocker?

    The pulley would be aluminum, hard anodized, and would physically resemble the stock lower only bigger. This would only be the pulley itself so you would be required to disassemble your stock lower, then press on this new pulley, and reassemble. I've disassembled a few so I can try to guide people through the process.

    The pulley would be 1 size only, probably 4lb (open for opinions on size) with no custom options as that would be too difficult and would only drive up costs.

    The price depends on the quantity, I'm not in this to make money but more to help out the community. Worst case scenario $400 a piece but probably much less than that. A New bearing is $17 on RockAuto, Bushing Material is like $10, a new Metco smaller idler is like $90 after that its just your labor.

    This pulley would be built by a high end machine shop that builds things for the aircraft industry, Big Dog Motor Cycles, etc so the part would be top notch. I personally have the funds to place a decent sized order 10-20 units so I wouldn't be taking deposits and promising deadlines or anything like that since I don't own the shop building them, lol.

    What I'm asking is would there be a market for these? and How many would buy one? Would people be willing to disassemble and reassemble the lower themselves?

    Hopefully this is an acceptable post, its kinda just a feeler. I'm thinking I might get 5 produced as 5 costs the same to build as 1, if there was enough interest I might start with a larger order. If I would get to the point of producing these I will contact SID and see what I need to do to be able to sell them here.

    Thanks

    Mike.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
  2. slo984now

    slo984now AKA 01yellerCobra Established Member

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    I'd be interested. The biggest reason I'm planning in staying with the stock pulley is because I want to keep the cage.
     
  3. WHITESTRIPES

    WHITESTRIPES Member Established Member

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    I think the reason many people stray away from a lower in the first place is fear of not having the cage. Ive had a 4lb lower for a couple years now with no issue but it would be nice for peace of mind. I think there is a lot of potential in this idea, taking it apart doesn't seem to be an issue either.
    Once you get a rock solid price update this thread please! If the price is right I'd get one.
     
  4. cj428mach

    cj428mach Well-Known Member Established Member

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    The machine shop owner gave me a ball park estimate and he told me "he'd be very close on it." If he is close to his number they would be $350 if I have 5 made, and he told me probably another $50 off per unit if I had 10 made. I didn't ask what higher volumes would run but they could easily become very reasonable. I just wanted to list the price at the worst case scenario incase his estimate is off.

    If I was to end up with a large enough order I may ask for a small deposit from people just so I don't order like 50 and everyone backs out lol. The good news is the shop said they would have the design in CAD so if I ever needed to reorder they could just knock them out with out the design costs but they would still have to be ordered in a larger quantities to keep costs down.

    The plan is to pop the pulley off my stock lower this weekend and try to run it by there the first of next week. I'll know more later after dropping the pulley off. We discussed machining a groove in the pulley for a snap ring to hold the bearing instead of staking. Then the only staking will be on the lower pulley bracket. I was told it would probably take a month and a half to get the finished product as they are very backed up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2015
  5. BoostedSVT03

    BoostedSVT03 Active Member Premium Member Established Member

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    I had a JDM unit on my Lightning and loved it! I was and still am surprised there isn't one for these cars! I have not done the lower for this exact reason though!

    Depending on the final price and turn around I maybe interested.
     
  6. bubblehead93

    bubblehead93 Member Established Member

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    I would be interested...

    r/
    Andy
     
  7. bigmoose

    bigmoose Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I'd be interested. Please take some pics of yours disassembled so we can get a better idea of what's involved.
     
  8. cj428mach

    cj428mach Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I'll just steal the pics from my friend Alan's post on caged lowers.
    Factory Caged Pulley
    _57_zps7c1b761d.jpg
    Cage with center bolt, rubber grommets, and 3 tang flang removed
    untitle_zpsa1dbc48e.png
    Center bolt, rubber grommets, and 3 tang flang
    unt_zps0e2a8b19.png
    Back side of pulley after removal
    unti_zps773a39b8.png
    Center bolt
    un_zps7bedffa5.png
    Close up showing the staked area around the bearing
    untitl_zps28b3c9ea.png
    Cage after pulley removed
    untitled_zpsd708402b.png
    Custom pulley made by anonymous person, does not look like it incorperates the rubber bushings
    pulley_zps912dae81.jpg
    Custom 3 tang lower made by WS6JJP
    IMG_0158_zpsad3bd0d6.jpg
     
  9. cj428mach

    cj428mach Well-Known Member Established Member

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    You would need access to a die grinder, and impact at the very least. A torch and a press are a bonus but not mandatory.

    I personally just put the lower in a vice holding the lower by just one bar of the tri-bar setup. Put a little heat on tri-bar around the center shaft, then zip the center shaft out with your 14mm allen on your impact turning it counter clockwise. This is actually reverse thread even though it seems "normal" if you think about it I'm actually turning the "bolt" aka (Center Shaft) clockwise if you were too look at it from the other end.

    After that you're looking at the stock pulley. This is the part I'm going to have made, the only way to remove it is to grind the stakes away from the bearing and either press off the pulley or use the BFH. The bearing will come off the lower bracket fairly easy, I was surprised. At this point you would be done with the factory pulley/bearing.

    Next you'd take the new pulley and press/BFH in the new bearing. The bearing is actually an A/C compressor bearing and they can be had for as little as $17 at RockAuto for a genuine AC Delco bearing. Instead of staking the bearing to help hold it the plan is to have a groove in the new pulley where you would install a snap ring to help hold the bearing in.

    After the bearing is on you can either press/BFH the pulley assembly on to the lower bracket. The only option on this end is to stake the new bearing or try to grind a groove/have a machine shop put a groove in it for a snap ring. I'm going to try to put a snap ring on mine some how. After that just install the tri-bar back on the shaft and its ready to go. You don't really need to worry about tools or anything to tighten the tri-bar as it should self tight once its on the car.

    The only part I'm planning to have made is just the black pulley seen here, no bracket or anything just the black pulley only larger. Everything else from the stock lower would be reused.

    untitle_zpsa1dbc48e.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2015
  10. cozmo2806

    cozmo2806 up in dat azz Established Member

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    Glad you have this up and going. Maybe you could provide links to the bearings and bushing material to help out those who will be going this route?
     
  11. bigmoose

    bigmoose Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I'm not too worried about an unsupported crank just running my 2.2. This is more work then I want to deal with compared to the metco unit.
     
  12. cj428mach

    cj428mach Well-Known Member Established Member

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    LOL does that mean you need it for your project?

    The bearing part number is #6559469 or it crosses over to #907257.

    You can get the bearing under the #6559469 on Rock Auto as an ACDelco part as cheap as anywhere else.

    The bushing material can be purchased from McMaster-Carr it can be had in different types of material, the Silicone is the one most people go with and the part number is 5546T56.

    Thats what I'm beginning to find out. It looks like i might be ordering just a handful of these to cover me and my friends. I've thought about just going with an aftermarket lower but I've heard it said that some engine builders can tell if an engine had an aftermarket lower just by looking at the internals. I don't now if its true but for the same price or less than an aftermarket one I'll put a little work in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
  13. cozmo2806

    cozmo2806 up in dat azz Established Member

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    Lol, I'm too deep into mine not to finish it and try it. But at least I will have something to fall back on.

    Alot of people won't work about their crank snouts, but with how hard cranks are to get nowadays and obviously the damage it could do if it does break.
     
  14. 03cobra#694

    03cobra#694 Want to play a game? Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Mike, if you actually get this going, you'll need to contact me.
     
  15. cj428mach

    cj428mach Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Will do. I do plan to see this through the question will be whether this is something only me and my friends enjoy or if there is enough interest to get them in SVTP members hands lol.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
  16. 03cobra#694

    03cobra#694 Want to play a game? Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Free test units for the Staff? J/K. Hope this works out.
    Brad
     
  17. mkb116

    mkb116 Twin turbskies Established Member

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    Man I wish you could figure out a way to strengthen the setup. The 4.0 whipple guys are breaking these things and that's what's preventing me from upgrading.
     
  18. cj428mach

    cj428mach Well-Known Member Established Member

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    It would be possible all it would take is money. The shop that will be building this assembly could easily make the tri-bar and the centershaft but it all costs money. I've thought about getting the center made but i'm sure it would double the cost of this project easily and right now no one really seems interested.

    What tends to fail on the lowers with bigger blowers? The shaft? or the tri-bar? I could look into getting a heavy duty drive shaft built but just run the factory tri-bar.

    If this was 5-10 years ago I wouldn't think twice about getting this stuff built but I think the Terminator is falling off a little. This section doesn't get the traffic it use to when I first joined just a few years ago.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
  19. bubblehead93

    bubblehead93 Member Established Member

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    I'm definitely interested depending on the price...

    r/
    Andy
     
  20. 604cobra

    604cobra lethal1 Established Member

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    caged 4 lb lower

    Yes , Im interested in one as well for my future 3.4 wipple build....as long its a stout piece, keep me informed
     

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